uS Israeli staff shootings

[mids2019]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cy9vr10n732t

Not really surprised but shows the level of New hatred that IS spreading in the US. Scary times and hope nothing like that happens here.

She wasn't defending it, she was pointing out a disgraceful factual error, spread by the media without fact checking, which amounted to a blood libel.

Factual error yes blood libel no. The Israeli government are blocking aid and starving civilians the timescale as to when babies might die was picked up inaccurately. Pretty grim you would claim a blood libel in this scenario.

@SharonEllis I'm not sure if I am misreading you or if you are misreading me! I'm not saying that Israelis can't be decent, innocent people, of course they can and most are. I'm just suggesting that the media constantly referring to them as embassy staff is dehumanising and makes it sound as though they may have been legitimate targets.

Imagine two headlines:
"Young couple murdered by radicalised pro-Palestine extremist" or
"Two Israeli embassy staff murdered by radicalised pro-Palestine extremist"
The first sounds more personal and shocking, the second more political. I question if this is coincidence or evidence of media bias

@ArtTheClown the false flag narrative is also being heavily pushed.

Imagine two headlines:
"Young couple murdered by radicalised pro-Palestine extremist" or
"Two Israeli embassy staff murdered by radicalised pro-Palestine extremist"
The first sounds more personal and shocking, the second more political. I question if this is coincidence or evidence of media bias @QueenOfHiraeth

The second one is far better. It contains more relevant information. Any decent editor would chose the second.

Yes, I see what you mean, you're right. I misunderstood you.

Oh come on. Anyone with a brain could figure out that the statement was highly unlikely to be true. 14000 babies were all at an equal stage of near death? The obsession with babies when all people of all ages are at risk when there is a shortage of adequate food in a war zone. It taps into the centuries old blood libel. Please don't pretend you can't see that.

It is so strange how the people who are so obsessed with this subject and yet have such a blind spot for antisemitism. Lineker innocently didnt see the rat, others dont recognise a blood libel.

It was highly unlikely to be true I agree (and wasn't true of course).

What's interesting is how quick some people were to jump on the bandwagon of repeating this false claim without fact checking, and how angry some Mumsnet posters were when it was pointed out that the statement had very quickly been corrected by the UN.

I got verbally attacked for daring to post about the correction and told by My leg is hanging off (can't quote them for some reason) that it "shouldn't matter" if 1 baby is dying of starvation or 14,000 so I was being "dismissive" of babies dying.

Exactly, the fact that an obviously ludicrous statement spread like wildfire was because it tapped into people existing biases and hysteria.And the defensiveness when its pointed out is off the scale. Instructive, but scary.

The complete refusal to admit that we might expect senior a UN official and news outlets to know the difference between 'death' and 'malnutrition' or 'babies' and 'children' or '48 hours' and '6 years'. That we no longer expect a news outlet or a politician to do basic fact checking.

And to point these things out means you dont care about babies dying. Its a pathetic level of debate and makes meaningful conversation impossible.

@SharonEllis I genuinely didn't know what a blood libel is so is so I just googled it. It stated in the Holocaust Encyclopedia that's it's the false allegation that Jews used the blood of non-Jewish, usually Christian children, for ritual purposes.

Now obviously this is a terrible lie but I genuinely don't see how it's connected to the death of the babies. Fair enough about the 14000 babies was later seen to be false but I don't see how it is a blood libel under the above definition.

(Am fully prepared to be told I am incorrect because as I said I had to Google it )

This. Plus, it was at an event to support Gaza?.

"Free Palestine" has become some all encompassing mantra, it would seem.

You are a very good example of what I'm talking about. You have been on these threads for a long time. Could I suggest giving it a bit more thought and perhaps a bit more work than a quick google. Its not really hard to see a connection between a historic story of Jews killing babies for their blood and the language and imagery of this war.

A protester at Eurovision had a prop baby, swaddled in blood soaked clothing. It's a strong and pervasive image, and is being used continuously.
This was at an event where the Israeli singer was a survivor of Nova. Extraordinary.

@SharonEllis I really can't see the connection with the two. Blood libel appears to be a very specific term that does not appear to be linked to starving babies.
Or is my terminology incorrect?
What is wrong with googling it? I used a website based on Holocaust Education.

@ScarlettOYara Some people just aren’t very bright and I would hazard a guess that this shooter is one of them.

Nothing is wrong with google. Giving the subject just a few minutes when you have been actively engaged in beung highly critical of Israel for a very long time is the issue. Nothing wrong with being critical of Israel either. Lots of Israelis are too. But its amazing to think you havent taken the time to understand the basics of antisrmitism and how it evolves over time in new contexts.

Unfortunately, it's turned into perpetrating a hate crime.

Please educate me then on the link between the two. All I know on antisemitism is from the internet as I don't know any Jewish people in real life.
so use your power to explain it to me.

You have been highly supportive of Israel for a very long time so you are more understanding of these issues.

I just had never heard of the term blood libel before.

i suspect most people haven’t heard of the story about babies blood being used for ritual purposes - I amnt young and it’s a new one to me

I think the image in peoples heads today is children dying at the hands of Isreal and we shouldn’t shy away from that.

if the Israeli government is putting Jewish people at risk because of their actions - welll there is a symmetry there with Hamas.

that’s not saying any killing is ok with me and I wish it would stop

if the Israeli government is putting Jewish people at risk because of their actions - welll there is a symmetry there with Hamas.

Jewish people have always been at risk. And people always have a justification why it's okay this time.

Your post is a case in point.

Its not my job to educate you. Please do the work. The internet is full of the words of Jewish people. Listen to them. Read Everyday Hate by Dave Rich for starters.

In the 13th century Jews were expelled from England. In the 19th century pogroms across Europe led to thousands of Jewish refugees coming here. 6 million Jews were murdered in the Holocaust. This week two Jewish people were murdered for being (or shooter thought they were) Jewish. It actually makes my blood run cold that you have no curiosity at all about the hatred that led to those things happening and that you have no interest in seeing the seam of deep rooted hatred that also runs through much of the pro-Palestine movement.

Im glad we had this conversation though as it has been revealing.

Sharon, you are constantly saying this and that is so revealing. It just doesn't hold much weight when you bandy it about all the time.

And he said 48 hours which was incorrect but it doesn't change that they are at risk of dying within the next year due to acute famine. Israel has killed over sixteen thousand children in this war. Does that make your blood run cold?

I'm constantly saying what?

You see, there you are, shrugging your shoulders at a disgraceful piece of misinformation.
it wasnt just that the 48 hours was incorrext
The babies was inaccurate
The prediction of death was wrong
The idea that actions in a tiny window would have completely irreversible long term effects for a vast number of babies was oversimplistic

Of course its wrong that people are suffering malnutrition. Its unconscionable that Hamas diverts aid and sells it to its own people at inflated prices. Its beyond belief that they care so little for their people that they wont release the hostages. Its completely wrong that Israel is withholding aid. I disagree with their strategy. Its devastating that children die in wars.