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Conflict in the Middle East
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105
ARainyNightInSoho · 27/04/2025 23:13

I have just watched the Louis Theroux programme. Please watch it! It is quite unlike his previous documentaries where he focuses on odd extremists. The programme appears to start off in that way but by the end he makes it clear it is the Israeli state. It's hard hitting and leaves you with no doubt about what side he is on. I am surprised, and pleased, the BBC broadcast it as it is not at all 'balanced'. Thankfully.

MissyB1 · 28/04/2025 07:16

ARainyNightInSoho · 27/04/2025 23:13

I have just watched the Louis Theroux programme. Please watch it! It is quite unlike his previous documentaries where he focuses on odd extremists. The programme appears to start off in that way but by the end he makes it clear it is the Israeli state. It's hard hitting and leaves you with no doubt about what side he is on. I am surprised, and pleased, the BBC broadcast it as it is not at all 'balanced'. Thankfully.

I was so tempted to watch it last night, but I was worried I would get too upset to sleep! I will try and watch it today sometime.

PollyPaintsFlowers · 28/04/2025 07:18

findingnibbles · 24/04/2025 09:35

Oh yes, because Israel poses no existential threat to Palestine or Palestinians. None at all.

And Palestine’s fate rests entirely on UK protesters.

If UK citizens would just protest against Hamas, everything would be fine. Hamas will leave (because they will take note of the protests) and then Palestinians will be free to live happily ever after in peace, with no aggression or interference from Israel whatsoever.

The end. 🌈🌸

I'm sure you know far better than actual Gazans. If only they realised westerners with saviour complexes knew what was best for them 🤣

'Hamas keeps losing Gazans! Thousands of women, children, and men, of all ages, in Beit Lahia, northern Gaza, came out today in anti-Hamas, pro-peace, anti-war protests in which they condemned the terror organization, called for its departure from Gaza and power, expressed pro-peace sentiments and made it clear that they value dignity and life more than martyrdom and death cultism.

In the first clip, a woman says, “We want peace, and condemn terrorism in all of its forms, and want to live like everyone else in the world, in dignity and to be protected from war, death, and annihilation.”

In the second clip, people chant, “for god’s sake, Hamas, get out!” and “We want to live.”

In the third clip, a mother is asking, “Do you really think we are working to raise our children so that they die? No, we raise our children so that they can live.” Critically, she further stresses that, “we are a people that don’t want to live on handouts and aid; we are educated and don’t want incoming and outgoing delegations.” She says that Gazans don’t want to be “beggars but want to be living in dignity like others around the world.”

In the fourth clip, children describe how they yearn for peace and a future that does not entail displacement, homelessness, and don’t want to grow up in war and destruction which Hamas is death cultism has brought upon the Palestinian people in the coastal enclave,” and want to live instead in ‘love and security.’ She discusses her desire for peace and how it is not a sign of weakness.

In the fifth and final clip, children and their mothers chant loudly, “out, out with Hamas, and leave us alone, oh Hamas!”

This is what I mentioned last week as something that I believe is about to become a regular occurrence, as the people of Gaza have had enough of Hamas’s vile and evil terrorism.

The problem is that no one wants to believe that Palestinians in the Strip are capable of independent thought, and to be against Hamas. I was speaking with a group of high-level former US officials about the anti-Hamas protests and the need to back up the local population in their pursuits, to which I was casually told, ‘Don’t expect much to come out of these occurrences.’ This is not to mention the complete blackout by the “pro-Palestine” industrial complex led by the likes of SJP, Mehdi Hasan, Middle East Eye, and all sorts of vloggers and so-called “journalists” in Gaza and beyond whose existence strictly revolves around anti-Israel content.

To me, and anyone with a functioning braincell, these anti-Hamas protestors should be viewed as the ultimate embodiment of real and authentic pro-Palestine sentiments, not Jihadi, pro-terror cosplay that is now the mainstream in the so called, “pro-Palestine” movement in the Western world. It is ironic that there are genuinely and sincerely far more pro-Hamas voices in the United States and Europe than there are in Gaza.

Support the actual freedom fighters of Gaza who are risking it all to make their truly independent voice heard against all odds. Long live the anti-Hamas innocent civilians of the Strip!' Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib

Whatsinanamehey · 28/04/2025 08:42

ARainyNightInSoho · 27/04/2025 23:13

I have just watched the Louis Theroux programme. Please watch it! It is quite unlike his previous documentaries where he focuses on odd extremists. The programme appears to start off in that way but by the end he makes it clear it is the Israeli state. It's hard hitting and leaves you with no doubt about what side he is on. I am surprised, and pleased, the BBC broadcast it as it is not at all 'balanced'. Thankfully.

The settlers that carry out terrorism against the Palestinians backed by the Israeli government brings more harm to the state of Israel than any outside threat. The Israeli government can in no way hold any moral authority when they not only allow but enable in the name of zionism, this form of terrorism.

findingnibbles · 28/04/2025 09:37

PollyPaintsFlowers · 28/04/2025 07:18

I'm sure you know far better than actual Gazans. If only they realised westerners with saviour complexes knew what was best for them 🤣

'Hamas keeps losing Gazans! Thousands of women, children, and men, of all ages, in Beit Lahia, northern Gaza, came out today in anti-Hamas, pro-peace, anti-war protests in which they condemned the terror organization, called for its departure from Gaza and power, expressed pro-peace sentiments and made it clear that they value dignity and life more than martyrdom and death cultism.

In the first clip, a woman says, “We want peace, and condemn terrorism in all of its forms, and want to live like everyone else in the world, in dignity and to be protected from war, death, and annihilation.”

In the second clip, people chant, “for god’s sake, Hamas, get out!” and “We want to live.”

In the third clip, a mother is asking, “Do you really think we are working to raise our children so that they die? No, we raise our children so that they can live.” Critically, she further stresses that, “we are a people that don’t want to live on handouts and aid; we are educated and don’t want incoming and outgoing delegations.” She says that Gazans don’t want to be “beggars but want to be living in dignity like others around the world.”

In the fourth clip, children describe how they yearn for peace and a future that does not entail displacement, homelessness, and don’t want to grow up in war and destruction which Hamas is death cultism has brought upon the Palestinian people in the coastal enclave,” and want to live instead in ‘love and security.’ She discusses her desire for peace and how it is not a sign of weakness.

In the fifth and final clip, children and their mothers chant loudly, “out, out with Hamas, and leave us alone, oh Hamas!”

This is what I mentioned last week as something that I believe is about to become a regular occurrence, as the people of Gaza have had enough of Hamas’s vile and evil terrorism.

The problem is that no one wants to believe that Palestinians in the Strip are capable of independent thought, and to be against Hamas. I was speaking with a group of high-level former US officials about the anti-Hamas protests and the need to back up the local population in their pursuits, to which I was casually told, ‘Don’t expect much to come out of these occurrences.’ This is not to mention the complete blackout by the “pro-Palestine” industrial complex led by the likes of SJP, Mehdi Hasan, Middle East Eye, and all sorts of vloggers and so-called “journalists” in Gaza and beyond whose existence strictly revolves around anti-Israel content.

To me, and anyone with a functioning braincell, these anti-Hamas protestors should be viewed as the ultimate embodiment of real and authentic pro-Palestine sentiments, not Jihadi, pro-terror cosplay that is now the mainstream in the so called, “pro-Palestine” movement in the Western world. It is ironic that there are genuinely and sincerely far more pro-Hamas voices in the United States and Europe than there are in Gaza.

Support the actual freedom fighters of Gaza who are risking it all to make their truly independent voice heard against all odds. Long live the anti-Hamas innocent civilians of the Strip!' Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib

You’re arguing against an apparition in your head (or we could also call it a straw man).

The only Westerner here claiming they know what‘s best for Palestinians is you.

Funny really since you’re a supporter of the apartheid state murdering them and are patently using welfare for Palestinians as a pretext to deflect away from any focus on Israel‘s crimes.

Whether Hamas were there or not, Palestinians would not be safe from Israel. Laughable for you to claim Palestinians feel otherwise.

Typical pro-Israeli gaslighting.

findingnibbles · 28/04/2025 09:46

findingnibbles · 28/04/2025 09:37

You’re arguing against an apparition in your head (or we could also call it a straw man).

The only Westerner here claiming they know what‘s best for Palestinians is you.

Funny really since you’re a supporter of the apartheid state murdering them and are patently using welfare for Palestinians as a pretext to deflect away from any focus on Israel‘s crimes.

Whether Hamas were there or not, Palestinians would not be safe from Israel. Laughable for you to claim Palestinians feel otherwise.

Typical pro-Israeli gaslighting.

Just to underline again – I have not said anywhere that I am pro-Hamas or that Palestinians support Hamas. So what‘s your contention?

Mylegishangingoff · 28/04/2025 10:15

ARainyNightInSoho · 27/04/2025 23:13

I have just watched the Louis Theroux programme. Please watch it! It is quite unlike his previous documentaries where he focuses on odd extremists. The programme appears to start off in that way but by the end he makes it clear it is the Israeli state. It's hard hitting and leaves you with no doubt about what side he is on. I am surprised, and pleased, the BBC broadcast it as it is not at all 'balanced'. Thankfully.

I haven't seen the doc yet but read this article a few days ago and this quote from Louis expressed better than I could one of the reasons why I care so much about what Israel are doing. Israel are making the world less safe for us all, Western countries excusing Israels actions and refusing to denounce it is scary. If we sit back and don't let our voices be heard we are giving the message that we would be OK with our leaders behaving the same. Who will be the target in our countries, maybe not us today but once the rule of law is gone who knows what tomorrow will bring.

One of my reasons for wanting to go back, apart from changes in the region itself, was the sense that increasingly the wider world was looking to what is happening in Israel and the occupied territories for clues as to what their own future might look like. Some global populist leaders view the ideology of the settler community as a prototype for a type of nationalism they would like to practise. They regard Israeli settlers as the tip of the spear of what they frame as a global war against Islam. The views expressed by some in the film are part of a much wider and increasingly powerful anti-democratic strain of thinking that is pushing back against notions of civil rights and the rule of law. And so there is renewed relevance to understanding what is happening in the West Bank.

https://deadline.com/2025/04/louis-theroux-the-settlers-guest-column-1236370743/

Louis Theroux West Bank

Louis Theroux On Returning To The West Bank After 15 Years For BBC Doc ‘The Settlers’ & Being “Perpetrator Focused” — Guest Column

Louis Theroux discusses his BBC West Bank documentary The Settlers, No Other Land and being "perpetrator focused" in a column for Deadline.

https://deadline.com/2025/04/louis-theroux-the-settlers-guest-column-1236370743/

BelleHathor · 28/04/2025 10:27

Full documentary is available on Twitter/X, just search for:
“The Settlers” (2025) — full documentary.

PollyPaintsFlowers · 28/04/2025 10:28

findingnibbles · 28/04/2025 09:37

You’re arguing against an apparition in your head (or we could also call it a straw man).

The only Westerner here claiming they know what‘s best for Palestinians is you.

Funny really since you’re a supporter of the apartheid state murdering them and are patently using welfare for Palestinians as a pretext to deflect away from any focus on Israel‘s crimes.

Whether Hamas were there or not, Palestinians would not be safe from Israel. Laughable for you to claim Palestinians feel otherwise.

Typical pro-Israeli gaslighting.

Hardly. Gazans are protesting to be free of Hamas, while those who claim to support them attack anyone criticising Hamas on the hate marches. Gazans are fighting to gain freedom and better lives, while those who claim to support them are more interested in criticising Israel.

If you were to lift Gazans out of Gaza and place them in a 'Pro-Palestinian' March in the West, would they also be attacked and threatened alongside everyone else calling out Hamas?

If you are actually Pro-Palestinian, how are you going to help free them from Hamas? Or is it OK for Palestinians to be killed by Hamas but not Israel? Bearing in mind Hamas are just going to cause more wars in the long run and more death and destruction for innocent Palestinians.

Are hate marchers going to continue with their weekly protests, which everyone is in agreement they're not achieving anything for Palestinians (or can you show me how they're helping), or can they utilise the 'support' Hamas thinks it has in the West and place soft pressure on Hamas or whoever takes over to acknowledge the existence and validity of Israel and everyone can have peace. They're never going to destroy Israel or have a one state solution which is a ridiculous pipe dream

I actually pity the Palestinians. They're openly used as human shields by their government and their supposed allies in the West just use them as a stick to beat Israel with

PollyPaintsFlowers · 28/04/2025 10:32

Mylegishangingoff · 28/04/2025 10:15

I haven't seen the doc yet but read this article a few days ago and this quote from Louis expressed better than I could one of the reasons why I care so much about what Israel are doing. Israel are making the world less safe for us all, Western countries excusing Israels actions and refusing to denounce it is scary. If we sit back and don't let our voices be heard we are giving the message that we would be OK with our leaders behaving the same. Who will be the target in our countries, maybe not us today but once the rule of law is gone who knows what tomorrow will bring.

One of my reasons for wanting to go back, apart from changes in the region itself, was the sense that increasingly the wider world was looking to what is happening in Israel and the occupied territories for clues as to what their own future might look like. Some global populist leaders view the ideology of the settler community as a prototype for a type of nationalism they would like to practise. They regard Israeli settlers as the tip of the spear of what they frame as a global war against Islam. The views expressed by some in the film are part of a much wider and increasingly powerful anti-democratic strain of thinking that is pushing back against notions of civil rights and the rule of law. And so there is renewed relevance to understanding what is happening in the West Bank.

https://deadline.com/2025/04/louis-theroux-the-settlers-guest-column-1236370743/

That's a ridiculous justification. China are putting Uyghur Muslims in concentration camps and harvesting their organs, Afghanistan have destroyed any kind of freedom for women and shut them away, I could go on. Yet you focus only on Israel. I don't agree with what the settlers are doing but saying Israel is making the world less safe and honing in only on them is hypocritical and ridiculous.

findingnibbles · 28/04/2025 10:34

PollyPaintsFlowers · 28/04/2025 10:28

Hardly. Gazans are protesting to be free of Hamas, while those who claim to support them attack anyone criticising Hamas on the hate marches. Gazans are fighting to gain freedom and better lives, while those who claim to support them are more interested in criticising Israel.

If you were to lift Gazans out of Gaza and place them in a 'Pro-Palestinian' March in the West, would they also be attacked and threatened alongside everyone else calling out Hamas?

If you are actually Pro-Palestinian, how are you going to help free them from Hamas? Or is it OK for Palestinians to be killed by Hamas but not Israel? Bearing in mind Hamas are just going to cause more wars in the long run and more death and destruction for innocent Palestinians.

Are hate marchers going to continue with their weekly protests, which everyone is in agreement they're not achieving anything for Palestinians (or can you show me how they're helping), or can they utilise the 'support' Hamas thinks it has in the West and place soft pressure on Hamas or whoever takes over to acknowledge the existence and validity of Israel and everyone can have peace. They're never going to destroy Israel or have a one state solution which is a ridiculous pipe dream

I actually pity the Palestinians. They're openly used as human shields by their government and their supposed allies in the West just use them as a stick to beat Israel with

Completely incoherent. I already posted this above:

Just to underline again – I have not said anywhere that I am pro-Hamas or that Palestinians support Hamas. So what's your contention?

PollyPaintsFlowers · 28/04/2025 10:39

findingnibbles · 28/04/2025 10:34

Completely incoherent. I already posted this above:

Just to underline again – I have not said anywhere that I am pro-Hamas or that Palestinians support Hamas. So what's your contention?

Incoherent 🤣

My contention is pointing out the hypocrisy of those who claim to be Pro-Palestinian while not actually doing anything to support Palestinians trying to free themselves from Hamas because they're so obsessed with Israel

You can criticise me all you like but at least I'm actually paying attention to Palestinians. What are you achieving for them?

Whatsinanamehey · 28/04/2025 10:40

As the conversation turned towards the terrorist settlers enabled by the state of Israel to terrorise Palestinians, we once again have a certain poster trying their best to deflect from this and turn the conversation away from it.

PollyPaintsFlowers · 28/04/2025 10:48

Whatsinanamehey · 28/04/2025 10:40

As the conversation turned towards the terrorist settlers enabled by the state of Israel to terrorise Palestinians, we once again have a certain poster trying their best to deflect from this and turn the conversation away from it.

😂 you give me far too much credit. I only just decided to check on the thread. Although it's interesting you'd describe a new update on what Palestinians are doing as a deflection. Why do you want to skim over what Palestinians are trying to communicate to the world? It just proves my point, for people like you Palestinians don't count, they're just a distraction from criticising Israel 🤷‍♀️

Mylegishangingoff · 28/04/2025 10:48

PollyPaintsFlowers · 28/04/2025 10:32

That's a ridiculous justification. China are putting Uyghur Muslims in concentration camps and harvesting their organs, Afghanistan have destroyed any kind of freedom for women and shut them away, I could go on. Yet you focus only on Israel. I don't agree with what the settlers are doing but saying Israel is making the world less safe and honing in only on them is hypocritical and ridiculous.

It's not just the settlers Polly, the settlers are acting with the approval and funding of the Israeli government. Yes I do believe when we support this type of heinous behaviour like lots of governments are doing a little bit of our safety is eroded.

Yesterday I watched a video of a lone woman being surrounded in the street in New York being assaulted repeatedly by a large gang of men screaming death to Arabs at her. I saw the police do nothing, arrest no one. Where else have we seen this behaviour, where else do people assault others and shout 'Death to Arabs' with impunity? Today it's the OPT but if we ignore it, it will come and it is coming to the streets near us.

Whatsinanamehey · 28/04/2025 10:56

PollyPaintsFlowers · 28/04/2025 10:48

😂 you give me far too much credit. I only just decided to check on the thread. Although it's interesting you'd describe a new update on what Palestinians are doing as a deflection. Why do you want to skim over what Palestinians are trying to communicate to the world? It just proves my point, for people like you Palestinians don't count, they're just a distraction from criticising Israel 🤷‍♀️

Oh dear oh dear polly

findingnibbles · 28/04/2025 11:01

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

PollyPaintsFlowers · 28/04/2025 11:01

Mylegishangingoff · 28/04/2025 10:48

It's not just the settlers Polly, the settlers are acting with the approval and funding of the Israeli government. Yes I do believe when we support this type of heinous behaviour like lots of governments are doing a little bit of our safety is eroded.

Yesterday I watched a video of a lone woman being surrounded in the street in New York being assaulted repeatedly by a large gang of men screaming death to Arabs at her. I saw the police do nothing, arrest no one. Where else have we seen this behaviour, where else do people assault others and shout 'Death to Arabs' with impunity? Today it's the OPT but if we ignore it, it will come and it is coming to the streets near us.

Except our government isn't supporting what's happening in the West Bank, it's repeatedly criticised and quite rightly

Meanwhile our government strikes massive trade deals with China and doesn't say a word about their human rights abuses. English Cricket had a chance to boycott Afghanistan in support of Afghani women and didn't and if our government said anything I must have missed it

What happened in NYC was awful, I don't know how you can blame Israel though 😵‍💫 sounds like an anti-Jewish conspiracy theory to blame all ills on Jews and the Jewish state. The hate marches in NYC have got pretty nasty at times aswell and Jews have been assaulted, the police weren't much good then either

Do you say the same thing about Muslims who scream death to Jews and the infidels? If we ignore it, will it come here? Or are you just hyperfocusing in on Jews alone again?

PollyPaintsFlowers · 28/04/2025 11:02

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

🥱 sorry, didn't get past the first sentence, you've said that already

Whatsinanamehey · 28/04/2025 11:03

Incoherent is putting it quite kindly I would say.

MissyB1 · 28/04/2025 11:03

Mylegishangingoff · 28/04/2025 10:15

I haven't seen the doc yet but read this article a few days ago and this quote from Louis expressed better than I could one of the reasons why I care so much about what Israel are doing. Israel are making the world less safe for us all, Western countries excusing Israels actions and refusing to denounce it is scary. If we sit back and don't let our voices be heard we are giving the message that we would be OK with our leaders behaving the same. Who will be the target in our countries, maybe not us today but once the rule of law is gone who knows what tomorrow will bring.

One of my reasons for wanting to go back, apart from changes in the region itself, was the sense that increasingly the wider world was looking to what is happening in Israel and the occupied territories for clues as to what their own future might look like. Some global populist leaders view the ideology of the settler community as a prototype for a type of nationalism they would like to practise. They regard Israeli settlers as the tip of the spear of what they frame as a global war against Islam. The views expressed by some in the film are part of a much wider and increasingly powerful anti-democratic strain of thinking that is pushing back against notions of civil rights and the rule of law. And so there is renewed relevance to understanding what is happening in the West Bank.

https://deadline.com/2025/04/louis-theroux-the-settlers-guest-column-1236370743/

Yes, I totally agree. And let's face it the president of the USA is totally on board and taking an active role in encouraging this terrifying behaviour and attitude.

Twiglets1 · 28/04/2025 11:05

I haven't watched the documentary yet but I definitely will - I'm a big fan of Louis Theroux and his work.

I have read the Guardian article that @marmaladeandpeanutbutter posted which I found interesting and liked the fact they mentioned that while the documentary was five star, it would have been improved by being more balanced. As the article states, "the peripheral glimpses of Israeli activists who protest against the settlements probably need more airtime, if only to demonstrate that this is a problem of individuals rather than an entire nation".

@ARainyNightInSoho comments that "thankfully" the documentary is not at all balanced but I agree with the Guardian that a bit of balance would probably have improved it. Because it is wrong to equate these ultra nationalist settlers with the whole Israeli population.

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2025/apr/27/the-settlers-review-this-vital-film-forces-louis-theroux-to-do-something-hes-never-done-before

The Settlers review – this vital film forces Louis Theroux to do something he’s never done before

The documentarian manages to stay calm and polite as guns are repeatedly pointed at him in the West Bank. Then someone shoves him …

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2025/apr/27/the-settlers-review-this-vital-film-forces-louis-theroux-to-do-something-hes-never-done-before

findingnibbles · 28/04/2025 11:06

Mylegishangingoff · 28/04/2025 10:48

It's not just the settlers Polly, the settlers are acting with the approval and funding of the Israeli government. Yes I do believe when we support this type of heinous behaviour like lots of governments are doing a little bit of our safety is eroded.

Yesterday I watched a video of a lone woman being surrounded in the street in New York being assaulted repeatedly by a large gang of men screaming death to Arabs at her. I saw the police do nothing, arrest no one. Where else have we seen this behaviour, where else do people assault others and shout 'Death to Arabs' with impunity? Today it's the OPT but if we ignore it, it will come and it is coming to the streets near us.

I saw this as well. They physically attacked her.

There was also another video of a Jewish man in New York (who had taken part in a march) being set upon by a mob of Jewish men who kicked him to the ground and smashed his phone.

Whatsinanamehey · 28/04/2025 11:09

Hundreds physically attacked her whilst shouting 'death to Arabs'
I wonder if these 'protestors' fans of Ben Gvir will also be arrested or does that only apply to certain protesters?

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