To think someone has got to stop the mass killings in Gaza

[BotanicalCake]

We are back to hundreds of Gazans being killed each day after the so called ceasefire and over 50,000 now slaughtered, mostly women and children.
The bombing of hospitals, schools and 'safe zones' not being enough, they are now picking off paramedics. How much depravity is the world going to tolerate?

AIBU to suggest that the world leaders complicit in Netanyahu's genocide should all stand before the Hague?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/apr/03/the-guardian-view-on-israels-killing-of-paramedics-a-new-atrocity-in-an-unending-conflict

Israel have been waiting for a very, very long time to do something about Gaza and the Palestinians. I'm suspicious as to why Hamas seem to be making this so easy for them. Surely they can't be that stupid? I'm sensing some very murky politics here.

@Ohdearieme2025 Thank you for standing up in the face of such flagrant antisemitism and support for a terrorist group.

Well, quite - but that still doesn't mean we should accept that every account from a witness is correct because they are Palestinian or an aid worker. If the survivor is inconsistent with details (it's more than one detail) it still may be the case that he didn't actually witness the attack on the other vehicles - even if the outcome is the same.

They were a far, far more a reliable witness that than any of the Israeli soldiers were who missed the fact that the aid vehicles were lit up like Christmas trees as they slaughtered the aid workers and buried them in a mass grave. When they were destroying the life saving equipment to make sure they couldn't be used in future to save Palestinian lives they still apparently missed the fact that they were lit up. Weird that.

It's also weird that you are so focused on the victim and what you think he has done wrong rather than the mass murderers who were breaking International law.

Mylegishangingoff
They were a far, far more a reliable witness that than any of the Israeli soldiers who missed the fact that the aid vehicles were lit up like Christmas trees

Well, to be fair, we only have a quote from the IDF’s international media spokesman - not the soldiers involved.

Be fair? To the soldiers that slaughtered 15 aid workers?

In WW2 the Germans bombed the UK killing thousands, that wasn't genocide it was sadly part of war and we bombed Germany killing thousands, that again wasn't genocide.

The Nazis rounded up and murdered hundreds of thousands of Jews in an attmept to wipe them out, that was genocide.

Can you really not see the difference?!

Civilians have been killed in Gaza because Hamas hide among them. I would bet that will be what this latest tragedy is about.

Because (whatever your view) Ulster is part of the UK full of British citizens, it’s also got a good number of Loyalists, Ulster was always open to any visitors from England, the aims of Republicans was the unification of the island of Ireland and not the annihilation of Brits/English. It’s a totally different scenario.

Mylegishangingoff
It's also weird that you are so focused on the victim

I made a brief observation - you are the one who has made a big deal out of it.

It's the only observation you made on the mass murder off aid workers.

'Well, quite - but that still doesn't mean we should accept that every account from a witness is correct because they are Palestinian or an aid worker'

Indeed.

The IDF are investigating and unlike Hamas they don't tend to kill innocent civilians so I'm sure there is more to this story.

I agree that WW2 German Nazi bombing the UK was not genocide. The Germans didn’t control the UK borders, entrap the uk, also didn’t stop UK citizens from fleeing the UK. They didn’t systematically them seeking medical help, destroy any hospital they could, derail and kill medical staff, block food, and prior to war stopped them from owning water their own water.

The IDF on behalf of the current Israeli government have trapped Palestinians in Gaza - they don’t need to round them up. It’s shooting goldfish in a barrel. That’s already happened. And they are making it impossible for them to live and killing them in an attempt to clear them from the land.

Can’t you see similarities?

Civilians have been killed in Gaza because Israeli gov are killing them. Israel gov have decided innocent civilian lives are collateral damage to be tolerated in their hunt for Hamas.

I’m sure you would bet that this is what the latest tragedy is about, because it’s the stock phrase used for an atrocity against civilians, aid workers and medical staff perpetrated by the IDF: “They were Hamas”, “They worked with Hamas”, “there was a Hamas tunnel under it”, “they were related to a member of Hamas”.

15,000 children are dead. @Gloriia

So why did the IDF lie about what happened? It's a fact that they lied. Would you trust an investigation by people whose first instinct after they killed 15 aid workers and buried them in a mass grave is to lie about why they did it? Do you mean there is more story to made up because yes we are all sure the IDF can do that.

I'm not here to make performative statements because you have demanded I do so. If the IDF soldiers are found guilty of murder, then yes, of course they should be dealt with harshly.

Netanyahu hasn't changed his position on what it will take for the war to end.

He said back in May 2024, “Israel’s conditions for ending the war have not changed: the destruction of Hamas’s military and governing capabilities, the freeing of all hostages and ensuring that Gaza no longer poses a threat to Israel.

Seems reasonable that Hamas would have to be destroyed, don't you agree? They are a terrorist organisation after all, don't recognise Israel's right to exist and carried out a massacre of their civilians in October 2023.

www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/01/no-end-to-gaza-war-until-destruction-of-hamas-says-netanyahu-israel

'Civilians have been killed in Gaza because Israeli gov are killing them'

Because Hamas dress up as civilians and doctors and hide among them.

I would take any death toll with a pinch of salt, Hamas tend to make stuff up. Have you seen the many clips of them holding their allegedly dead relatives then they inconveniently sit up or blink?

Hamas say they are being starved yet the only emaciated people we've seen are the released hostages.

Many people have sadly being killed on both sides of the conflict but the people to blame are Hamas.

It was reported in the press that they agreed to it:
Hamas will ‘accept PA governing Gaza’ under ceasefire deal
17 Feb 2025
https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/hamas-accept-pa-governing-gaza-ceasefire-rch26gjt

It was also not Hamas’ idea but the mediators including the US and UAE:
UAE in talks with US, Israel about provisional government for post-war Gaza
7 Jan 2025
https://m.jpost.com/middle-east/article-836444

the Palestinian Authority agreed to it as well
*Palestinian Authority 'Ready to Take Full Responsibility for Gaza Strip,' Despite Not Being Party to Cease-fire Agreement
18 Jan 2025
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-01-18/ty-article/.premium/palestinian-authority-ready-to-take-full-responsibility-for-gaza-strip/00000194-79cc-dce1-a396-fded13bb0000

Wiki summarises the phase 3 oversight as follows
”Third stage
In this stage, Hamas would have released all the remains of deceased Israeli captives, in exchange for Israel releasing the remains of deceased Palestinian bodies that it holds.[158] Israel would end the blockade of the Gaza Strip and Hamas would not rebuild its military capabilities.[15]
Supervision and guarantors
Initially, it was proposed that activities in the Gaza Strip would be supervised by Egypt, Qatar, and the United Nations,[158] who along with the United States would guarantee the proposal and its provisions. As of February 2025, the government of Israel continued to insist that in its implementation of the "second-phase" (see supra) of the peace deal, the Gaza Strip must be de-militarized and that the Palestinian Authority (PA) was in no position to govern the Gaza Strip.[159]”

As seen above, Hamas & everyone else had agreed to it, so it would have happened if Israel had chosen to move on to phase 2 and then phase 3…but instead they chose to re-start the war

“On the early morning of 18 March 2025, during Ramadan, Israel conducted a surprise offensive of "extensive" airstrikes on Gaza, thereby shattering the almost two-month truce.[408][43] Israeli forces acknowledged that they were "conducting extensive strikes", and separately stated that their attack "plan was kept in closed circles in the IDF to create an element of surprise and deception."[409][410]…..”

Israeli journalist Barak Ravid argued that while journalists described the resumption of airstrikes as being a result of a "collapse", the ceasefire was deliberately collapsed by the Israeli government itself:
https://news.walla.co.il/item/3735371

@Gloriia
Again there goes the justification to kill anyone who helps sustain the population - it’s Hamas dressed up. There are world class surgeons who trained all over the world who were tortured to death because they are apparently Hamas - it’s rubbish.

I’ll never underplay what any hostage has gone through, but you’re wrong when you say that they were the only ones looking emaciated. Have you seen the state of Palestinian people released from Israeli prisons? See them for emancipation, scabies, limbs removed due to medical neglect.The Israelis who were alive when released came back looking a lot healthier.

The Palestinians who died in detention have not even been returned. Those Palestinians who’ve been disinterred or taken from morgues or died in custody before reaching an Israeli jail are dumped in a big pile on the ground with a digger at the check point.

The death toll - how can anyone know for certain what the number is, but I’ve seen enough to know it’s immense.

The people to blame are Hamas, Netanyahu, Ben-Gvir, Smotrich, and now Trump for fanning the flames.

IDF doesn’t give notice before attacking.
Your other comment trying to say it can’t be genocide because there are still Palestinians alive is gobsmacking.
The case against Israel at the ICJ for genocide is based on a wealth of verified evidence otherwise the court would have dismissed the case. It isn’t propaganda.

'Have you seen the state of Palestinian people released from Israeli prisons'

Lots of healthy looking people smiling and jumping off buses yes. Not paraded in front of baying crowds either.

They are. The UN also gets its figures from Hamas.

Well you have got yourself in a tizzy because there are those of us who disagree with you and know the actual truth rather than the crappy bbc reporting.

But realistically @SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice don't you see Hamas would need to be destroyed for that region to have any chance of peace?

As I noted above, they are a terrorist organisation, don't recognise Israel's right to exist and carried out an unprovoked and deadly terrorist attack on Israel civilians. Do you really think Netanyahu could ever trust them after that??

'IDF doesn’t give notice before attacking'

They actually issued press releases telling the palestinians to evacuate when they were going to attack didn't you know? Hence all the displacement. All Hamas fault.

The death marches that came to my mind were the trail of tears and others done by the US Army to the Native Americans.

That’s a closer match than the Bataan Death March ( all combatant POWs) or the Holocaust death marches.

as that death marches in the USA was also indigenous families being forced to flee to a designated barren piece of land with only what they can carry and killing some that fall behind or step out of line. The destination was also one that cannot support life without humanitarian aid, which is then used as a means of control, punishment and to cause conditions for loss of life.