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Conflict in the Middle East

330 reported killed so far in today's airstrikes

255 replies

Scirocco · 18/03/2025 07:29

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/czje23jd779t

New evacuation orders have been issued. Israeli government reported as saying they will fight until their war aims are achieved.

At least 330 killed after Israel launches extensive strikes on Gaza, Hamas-run ministry says - live updates

Israel launched dozens of air strikes on cities across Gaza, in the largest wave since a ceasefire with Hamas began in January.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/czje23jd779t

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9
Twiglets1 · 20/03/2025 08:44

Whatsinanamehey · 20/03/2025 08:34

Israel was always going to go back to war in Gaza and now there's talks of a bigger war in the west bank. I don't know why people think this would stop if the hostages were released.

Don't you think the hostages should be released?

Whatsinanamehey · 20/03/2025 09:10

Twiglets1 · 20/03/2025 08:44

Don't you think the hostages should be released?

Ofcourse I do, that goes without saying. My point is that Israel would have continued the war once the last hostage was released as there would be nothing to hold them back then. Right now there's immense internal public pressure to halt due to the danger the war poses on the hostages.

Bellahadthese · 20/03/2025 09:12

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dairydebris · 20/03/2025 09:14

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You can't be serious with this?

Hamas have treated them better? Given them goody bags and received kisses?

Christians Jews and Muslims lived in peace before Israel?

Do you really believe that?

Twiglets1 · 20/03/2025 09:15

Whatsinanamehey · 20/03/2025 09:10

Ofcourse I do, that goes without saying. My point is that Israel would have continued the war once the last hostage was released as there would be nothing to hold them back then. Right now there's immense internal public pressure to halt due to the danger the war poses on the hostages.

There’s nothing to hold them back now apparently but it would make Netanyahu look worse and turn public opinion against him for those that are currently believing that he just wants the hostages returned to start diplomatic negotiations again.

VolcanoJapan · 20/03/2025 09:22

This has got to either be a joke or meant to cause offence. Of course people terrified and surrounded by terrorists do as they are told. Most people (not you) realise that the behaviour of Hamas terrorists during hostage release was completely unacceptable.

Goody bags indeed.

Twiglets1 · 20/03/2025 09:24

VolcanoJapan · 20/03/2025 09:22

This has got to either be a joke or meant to cause offence. Of course people terrified and surrounded by terrorists do as they are told. Most people (not you) realise that the behaviour of Hamas terrorists during hostage release was completely unacceptable.

Goody bags indeed.

Designed to cause offence I think ( reported).

ssd · 20/03/2025 09:54

Twiglets1 · 20/03/2025 08:43

I know they do but more people would turn against him if he carried on with the attacks even after the hostages had been returned.

Some people on here have questioned why there has not been more of a world outcry against what is happening. I think they may lack an understanding of how shocked the world was by the events of October 7th. There are people on this thread who will not acknowledge how awful that event was & a backlash when I suggested a PP should include Fuck Hamas along with Fuck Netanyahu and Trump. But while Hamas continue to behave as they do (including the horrible way that they returned Israeli hostages both dead & alive) it appears to neutral outsiders that there is blame on both sides.

@Twiglets1 , you don't think there's blame on both sides then??

EasterIssland · 20/03/2025 09:55

In ‘final warning’ to Gazans, Katz says evacuations from combat zones will start soon

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/in-final-warning-to-gazans-katz-says-evacuations-from-combat-zones-will-start-soon/

Bellahadthese · 20/03/2025 10:08

Not to cause offence no, it was on the news,
I saw it on TV
Maybe it was airbrushed out of mainstream media tho
Anyway, I don't think I wrote anything offensive just stating facts.
From an outsider view it looks like the Palestinians are being blamed for the Holocaust even tho they had no hand in it.
They are just easy to bully when you have the might of the US and Europe behind you, I guess
I want to see peace for everyone but as that Israeli documentary maker himself said Israel can't have peace until Palestine is free

Twiglets1 · 20/03/2025 10:08

ssd · 20/03/2025 09:54

@Twiglets1 , you don't think there's blame on both sides then??

With the Israel-Palestinian conflict yes I do.

Honeylemonandginger · 20/03/2025 10:27

VolcanoJapan · 20/03/2025 09:22

This has got to either be a joke or meant to cause offence. Of course people terrified and surrounded by terrorists do as they are told. Most people (not you) realise that the behaviour of Hamas terrorists during hostage release was completely unacceptable.

Goody bags indeed.

I’m sorry,I just joined this thread because I just feel so utterly horrified and shaken to the core by what is still happening in Gaza.
How can anyone with an ounce of humanity justify what is happening to the innocent people in Gaza?
Yet , we still call ourselves civilised and ( some) argue that what Isreal is doing is justified!
How?

MrsSkylerWhite · 20/03/2025 10:31

**
Honeylemonandginger

Im sorry,I just joined this thread because I just feel so utterly horrified and shaken to the core by what is still happening in Gaza.
How can anyone with an ounce of humanity justify what is happening to the innocent people in Gaza?
Yet , we still call ourselves civilised and ( some) argue that what Isreal is doing is justified!
How?

What she said.

Twiglets1 · 20/03/2025 10:39

I don't think anyone on this thread has said that what Israel is doing in justified @Honeylemonandginger @MrsSkylerWhite

Being against Hamas is not the same as being against the innocent people in Gaza.

quantumbutterfly · 20/03/2025 10:40

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Seems like Hamas have treated them better
Ooh you won't like that but they were kissing their captors and received goody bags

???????????? I'm not sure you're seeing the whole picture.

MrsSkylerWhite · 20/03/2025 10:42

Twiglets1 · Today 10:39
**
I don't think anyone on this thread has said that what Israel is doing in justified
Being against Hamas is not the same as being against the innocent people in Gaza.

Problem is, the Government of Israel is not differentiating. Its just ordering the slaughter of everyone.

How is that justified?

Twiglets1 · 20/03/2025 10:44

quantumbutterfly · 20/03/2025 10:40

Seems like Hamas have treated them better
Ooh you won't like that but they were kissing their captors and received goody bags

???????????? I'm not sure you're seeing the whole picture.

I know - the way she described it I was almost feeling jealous I hadn't been kidnapped by Hamas so I could get a goody bag at the end and say thanks with a kiss. Don't think that's the whole picture though!

Twiglets1 · 20/03/2025 10:48

MrsSkylerWhite · 20/03/2025 10:42

Twiglets1 · Today 10:39
**
I don't think anyone on this thread has said that what Israel is doing in justified
Being against Hamas is not the same as being against the innocent people in Gaza.

Problem is, the Government of Israel is not differentiating. Its just ordering the slaughter of everyone.

How is that justified?

It isn't which is probably why no one on this thread has attempted to justify the slaughter of civilians.

The Israel government are wrong to be doing what they are doing.

Hamas were wrong too to do what they did on October 7th.

ScrollingLeaves · 20/03/2025 10:50

Twiglets1 · 20/03/2025 07:56

Hamas may think there is nothing to lose @ScrollingLeaves but what do they gain in keeping Israeli hostages & dead bodies any longer?

Plus Netanyahu could no longer use the hostages as any kind of justification for his actions which could affect public opinion.

Edited

@Twiglets1 I do not know what Hamas thinks now, but they had wanted to return the remaining hostages as part of a permanent ceasefire. Israel broke the agreement. Presumably the hostages are the only leverage Hamas has.

The worst case scenario is perhaps that they’ll simply take the hostages and the civilians with them to death. They are cruel and callous to the hostages and their own.

If they gave the hostages up though, the bombing of Hamas and civilians by Israel would still continue, followed by some sort of ethnic cleansing or complete repression.

Netanyahu would have the reason that Hamas must be eliminated for generations to come ( logically, all possible Hamas including the Palestinian children of today need to be gone, whether killed, removed, or suppressed one way or another.) on Channel 4 last night an Israeli government minister said this. He robustly anticipates and vindicates the ‘Hell’ to be unleashed.
https://www.channel4.com/programmes/channel-4-news?cntsrc=social_share_ios_channel_4_news

The people in charge of the government at the moment, or those controlling it through Netanyahu’s need for them so he can remain in power, do not care about the hostages. Biden tried to make them care and Trump began by backing the recent plan to see them released and end the war. But now it is all about ‘hell’ and whatever may follow. The families must be in despair.

This is analysis from Haaretz (Israeli press)
from yesterday without links or pictures:

^There Is No Justification at All for Israel to Resume the War in Gaza*
What will the massive aerial assault, further devastation and the elimination of a few more low-ranking Hamas leaders achieve? Let us hope it is unconnected to Trump's dreams of a Gaza Riviera

With the decision in the early hours of Tuesday to resume the war in Gaza, Israel's march of folly continues. This is yet another Israeli violation of the agreement with Hamas, which began with its refusal to open negotiations as required on the two stages to immediately follow from the initial truce, and to establish a permanent cease-fire.

But beyond the legal and formal aspect, and the important principle that agreements must be honored – even if they are signed with a notorious terrorist organization – what will the massive aerial assault and the elimination of a few more low-ranking Hamas leaders achieve?

As expected, on Wednesday, following the massive airstrikes, Israeli tanks rolled into Gaza, cutting the Strip in two, while motorized infantry brigades prepare for further operations.

Renewing the war will certainly not bring the hostages home. On the contrary, it endangers the 22 who, according to Israeli intelligence assessments, are still alive, and will further complicate the return of the 37 bodies held in Gaza.

After about 16 months of fighting, there is a sense of déjà vu and more of the same: more assassinations, but this time of junior Hamas and Islamic Jihad commanders, since most of the senior figures have already been eliminated. The assassination operations, which Israeli intelligence services and the Israel Defense Forces have become so enamored of and regard as an end in themselves, are primarily directed against the civilian leadership – on the assumption that this will hasten the downfall of Hamas' rule.

Following Hamas' invasion on October 7, 2023 – accompanied by massacres, rapes and atrocities – Israel had no choice but to go to war. The country united as one, seeing it as a battle for survival. Hundreds of thousands of reservists, many of them members of the protest movement against the government's regime change efforts, were mobilized and went to fight.

However, as the war dragged on and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu refused to discuss "the day after" or address what alternative governance should replace Hamas in Gaza, the war became unnecessary and resulted in the needless deaths of at least 150 soldiers.

In the current round, it is difficult to find even a shred of justification for the decision to renew the war. From any perspective, this is a war of choice. This is not a war for survival. It is a political war, made possible by the blind support of U.S. President Donald Trump for Israel and Netanyahu.

Once again, Netanyahu's demagogic and false justification for launching the war is that Hamas refused to release the hostages and, thus, to inflict on it a final blow.

Its hidden objectives, though, are to facilitate the return of Itamar Ben-Gvir and his radical Jewish supremacy faction to the governing coalition. Also, under the cover of war, to continue the accelerated legislative push aimed at once again weakening Israel's traditional democratic institutions and its gatekeepers.

^The fighting is also intended to elevate the image of the new IDF chief of staff, Lt. Gen. Eyal Zamir, as a "war commander," an aggressive general – as demanded by the minister who appointed him, Israel Katz, and other right-wing ministers.*

This conduct indirectly diminishes the stature of his predecessor, Lt. Gen. Herzl Halevi, who resigned early this month. However, the reality was that under Halevi's command, the IDF fought – at least in the first weeks – a war of vengeance, causing the deaths of thousands of innocent Gazans and the deliberate destruction of residential buildings and civilian infrastructure.

Upon taking office, Zamir stated that to execute the IDF's war plan, he would need to mobilize five divisions. Most of these will have to come from reserve forces. It will be interesting to see whether the response this time will be as high, or whether the recent trend of "white desertion" – reservists finding excuses not to report – will continue.

Once again, like immediately after October 7, no one at the political level is setting a clear strategic goal for the military operation: What exactly they seek to achieve beyond the hollow slogan of toppling Hamas? Netanyahu and his government are refusing to explain who they envision governing Gaza afterward.

If a large-scale ground invasion evolves, there may still be an even more covert objective: to trigger a chain reaction. To inflict such massive destruction on Gaza that it ultimately leads to ethnic cleansing or voluntary transfer. In that scenario, hundreds of thousands of its residents will no longer be able to live on the land, not even in tent camps or makeshift shelters. They will disregard warnings and rush toward the Egyptian border and into Sinai.

If, heaven forbid, someone in Israel conceived such a monstrous idea, it could align perfectly with Trump's plan to transfer 2.2 million Gazans to Egypt and Jordan, to make room for "the Gaza Riviera."

Since the first week after October 7, Netanyahu has intended – and has never concealed it – to wage as long a war as possible; a perpetual war designed to create an ongoing state of emergency in the country. He quickly realized that the public had grown weary of the struggle to bring the hostages home, making it possible to abandon them without him having to pay a political or personal price.

Netanyahu believed – and so far he has been proven right – that the longer the war drags on, and now with its renewal, the greater his chances of remaining in power. This is for the simple reason that most Israelis accept the notion of "don't rock the boat when we're in the middle of a storm."

The protest movements, and of course the hostage families, have made it clear that they will not end their struggle. Already on Tuesday and Wednesday, tens of thousands of protesters gathered in the streets of Tel Aviv, Jerusalem and other parts of the country. If their protest is supplemented by reservists in sufficient numbers refusing to fight this unnecessary and foolish war, it can end it quickly and be cut short.

<a class="break-all" href="https://archive.ph/2025.03.19-192031/www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-03-19/ty-article/.premium/there-is-no-justification-at-all-for-israel-to-resume-the-war-in-gaza/00000195-af80-dc54-a397-ef922b7c0000" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://archive.ph/2025.03.19-192031/www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-03-19/ty-article/.premium/there-is-no-justification-at-all-for-israel-to-resume-the-war-in-gaza/00000195-af80-dc54-a397-ef922b7c0000

Twiglets1 · 20/03/2025 10:54

@ScrollingLeaves Im going out for a few hours now so will reply when I get home. Didn’t want you to think I was ignoring you.

quantumbutterfly · 20/03/2025 11:02

Twiglets1 · 20/03/2025 10:44

I know - the way she described it I was almost feeling jealous I hadn't been kidnapped by Hamas so I could get a goody bag at the end and say thanks with a kiss. Don't think that's the whole picture though!

There was a poster on another thread that said the PLO weren't terrorists, lots of misinformation, my memory of the last 50+ years informs me differently. I'm still wondering why the thread detailing the cross party report on October 7th was removed for verification when so much other offensive nonsense is allowed to stand.

www.7octparliamentarycommission.co.uk/

People keep talking about breaking ceasefires, this whole horror was started by a broken 'ceasefire', (let's ignore the usual rocket attacks and suicide bombers).

I agree that handing all hostages back (in whatever condition they are currently) would create more unqualified support for Gazan integrity.

justasecond · 20/03/2025 11:12

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quantumbutterfly · 20/03/2025 11:17

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Hardcore Zionists?
Do you mean those who believe the state of Israel should be allowed to exist?
Do you think the state of Israel should not exist?

Whatsinanamehey · 20/03/2025 11:19

How can anyone justify this. First they blockade the entry of all aid and before anyone starts with well why doesn't Egypt allow in aid then they should know that Israel CONTROLS all the borders into Gaza and will not allow Egypt to send in any aid. But then they thought that clearly wasn't depraved enough so they have now started murdering Palestinians who only have flimsy tents as protection. Fucking scum.

Whatsinanamehey · 20/03/2025 11:20

The lowest of the low.

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