Egypt proposes $53bn Gaza rebuild as alternative to Trump plan

[EasterIssland]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/mar/04/egypt-proposes-53bn-gaza-rebuild-as-alternative-to-trump-plan

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn7vd4pnxx3o.amp

So there's no hope, Israel have changed the terms of the ceasefire, broken it by refusing to allow aid in and now their only option moving forward is ethnic cleansing of all Palestinians.

Direct talks with hamas and also Putin

Perhaps America First? Easy win for Trump to get Americans released. His MAGA base is getting frustrated and angry with his deference to Israel, nicknaming him the MIGA president (Make Israel Great Again) and it's starting to show in the poll numbers.

Direct talks are no surprise, the USA has always done whatever is in their own interests. They negotiated with Hezbollah regarding the ceasefire in Lebanon. They negotiated through a 3rd country the nature of and strength and nature of Iran's responses.

Has Netanyahu calculated correctly, Zelensky sure thought he had.

@BelleHathor good points, what happens when Trump says America wants something more in return for the help they have been giving to Israel all these years?
Trump is only for himself and that shouldn't be forgotten.

Who knows? Trump just "truthed" a final threat to Hamas.

The story in the Times of Israel via Axios "was obtained by other means" aka via spying or a leak.

He said this weeks ago and then did nothing when all the hostages weren't released by midday on the Saturday as he said they should be.

Yes, I don't know what game is being played.

Israel's GDP is $513 Billion.

The US gave Israel $12.5 billion in 2024 during the Gaza war. That's about 2.4% of Israel's GDP.

For comparison, 2.4% of the UK's GDP is £69 billion. That's about what we spent on Covid Furlough. Painful, but possible as a once-off

The more usual $3 billion which the US give Israel in an average year is 0.6% of Israel's GDP.

For comparison, 0.6% of the UK's GDP is £17 billion. That's about 8% of our NHS spending.

It's a significant amount of aid, and it would be painful to Israel to lose it, but it isn't make-or-break.

It's completely different to the $183 billion the US have given Ukraine in the last 3 years. Ukraine's GDP is about $179 billion. So that's 34% of Ukraine's GDP every year for 3 years. (Just from the US).

Oh god. It’s like there is a 10 year old spoilt child in charge. It makes me feel sick to my stomach with worry for the whole world reading his words.

France on Thursday saluted an Arab plan to rebuild the Gaza Strip under the future administration of the Palestinian Authority, adding that the militant group Hamas should be “entirely” excluded from running it, reports Agence France-Presse

It's a great idea, but, and it's a big but how to get rid of Hamas? They won't just go. That much is obvious.

And if they did agree to leave @ImmediateReaction would you think it is a good plan.

If Hamas could be eliminated it would be amazing, but I don't see it happening. Even if all their leaders were imprisoned, they'd just be martyrs to the cause, and a new group would spring up. I should imagine there needs to be some kind of reconciliation process involving both Gaza and Israel.

But why would another group spring up if Israel left Gaza completely and the Palestinians were allowed self governance?

Because the Gazans chose Hamas in 2005, and recent polls show that many of the ideas Hamas included in their charter - as well as their actions on October 7th - are still widely supported in Gaza. So it's reasonable to infer that they would vote Hamas in again now.

If Hamas are not there, Gazans will support another group with the same ideas.

The Palestinian hatred of the Jews was there before Hamas, before 1967, even before Israel existed.

Nothing would be different.

So there is no point in any negotiations or ceasefire we just have to go straight to what??

And when did Israelis choose the arch liar, trouble maker and criminal, Netanyahu, propped up by extremists?

I think any solution is unlikely, but like I said I'm willing to keep an open mind.

I can't see anything particularly different in the Arab plan (ie different from all the other previous peace plans) - and no concrete detail on any of the tricky stuff - but maybe their involvement (rather than the proposals coming from the West) will make a difference.

But naively pushing fairytales makes peace less likely, not more likely. Because it means that you ignore what actually needs to be solved. Which is Israel's security.

I'm reading an interesting book that makes the argument that draws a line between the 1929 Hebron massacre and October 7th, 2023, arguing that the "pogrom in Hebron, part of a spate of anti-Jewish riots that August, inspired the extremism on both sides that continues to make the Israeli-Palestinian conflict so intractable."

It's quite difficult to negotiate with an entity that wants to destroy you. Hamas want to see the end of what they now call 'the Zionist Project' which is to say the elimination of Israel.

There isn't really a middle ground is there?

What needs to be solved yes is the removal of Hamas but also a complete change of mindset in the Israeli government. They have a charter that Israel will exist from the river to the sea and have actively backed a man who has called for the expulsion and massacre of 2 million people.

I think it is very easy for pro Israel people to say there is no way forward for peace because that gives Israel its aim of taking over the entire Palestinian territory.

Have you looked at a map lately? Israel already exists from the river to the sea.

Israel certainly has maps showing that!

Apparently this needs to be said again: Israeli Jews are the last people on Earth who can complain about Palestinian longing for the land from the river to the sea. The State of Israel is the mother of "river to the sea" – using graphic rather than geographic language. It is nearly impossible to find a map in any public space in Israel today, from official maps to public art and iconography, showing the Green Line that would delineate a hypothetical Palestinian state. Maps in Israel show the whole land, undivided – in effect, erasing Palestinian political and national identity.

….and,

As for inciting children about river to sea: This is the time to recall that Israeli public schools are practically barred from using maps showing the Green Line – no Palestine there either.

(Excerpt Haaretz Feb 13 2025
For Israelis, 'From the River to the Sea' Is a Reality. For Palestinians, It's a crime.)

The State of Israel currently exists between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea; it's confronting when the Pro-Palestinian crowd yell it because for Palestine to exist between the river and the sea, Israel would have to cease to exist.