Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Conflict in the Middle East
Thread gallery
6
Whatsinanamehey · 05/03/2025 09:19

I hope all those people who were going on and on about well whose going to even want to re-build Gaza, will read this. I said from the start, the Arab states will on the condition that it leads to a Palestinian future state and Israel isn't just going to bomb the whole strip again.

EasternStandard · 05/03/2025 09:21

Thanks @statsfun do you think this plan is doable?

RubyTuesday48 · 05/03/2025 09:22

EasterIssland · 05/03/2025 09:13

Whatever you or I think Palestinians will never give up jerusalem to Israelis

They don't currently have Jerusalem 'to give up' 🙄

Whatsinanamehey · 05/03/2025 09:25

RubyTuesday48 · 05/03/2025 09:22

They don't currently have Jerusalem 'to give up' 🙄

They are occupying East Jerusalem, don't you know? It's not Israeli land, its occupied Palestinian land.

EasterIssland · 05/03/2025 09:27

RubyTuesday48 · 05/03/2025 09:22

They don't currently have Jerusalem 'to give up' 🙄

Sure.

hopefully Egyptians plan to rebuild Gaza is more successful than netanhayus and trumps ethnics cleansing plan

OP posts:
RubyTuesday48 · 05/03/2025 09:30

EasterIssland · 05/03/2025 09:27

Sure.

hopefully Egyptians plan to rebuild Gaza is more successful than netanhayus and trumps ethnics cleansing plan

Hopefully. Once they get rid of Hamas.

RubyTuesday48 · 05/03/2025 09:31

Whatsinanamehey · 05/03/2025 09:25

They are occupying East Jerusalem, don't you know? It's not Israeli land, its occupied Palestinian land.

To all intents and purposes Jerusalem has been a reunited city since 1967.

LondonPapa · 05/03/2025 09:33

BaMamma · 04/03/2025 19:42

'The Egyptian plan did acknowledge the challenge posed by armed factions in Gaza but said the issue could be resolved through a “credible political process” that restores Palestinian rights and offers a clear path forward.'

Is it possible to create such a credible political process? Will Hamas agree?

Hamas will never agree. The only way to get rid of Hamas is to forcibly remove them.

Whatsinanamehey · 05/03/2025 09:34

RubyTuesday48 · 05/03/2025 09:31

To all intents and purposes Jerusalem has been a reunited city since 1967.

No it hasn't.

Itisbetter · 05/03/2025 09:34

Is Jerusalem held entirely by Israelis? I thought there were Muslim Christian and Jewish places of worship with special significance there?

Whatsinanamehey · 05/03/2025 09:35

Under international law, East Jerusalem is under illegal Israeli occupation.

Bells3032 · 05/03/2025 09:37

Can't even post a thread about rebuilding Gaza without a bunch of keyboard warriors who likely have no skin in the game arguing about who is right and wrong and who owns what land.

Whilst the idea is wonderful and i pray it comes to fruition and there is a peace agreement the attitudes within this thread is why i have my doubts

RubyTuesday48 · 05/03/2025 09:38

Itisbetter · 05/03/2025 09:34

Is Jerusalem held entirely by Israelis? I thought there were Muslim Christian and Jewish places of worship with special significance there?

There are all the Abrahamic places of worship with special significance to Jews, Christians and Muslims in Jerusalem. And east Jerusalem has been a Muslim area since 1948 but there is no longer a dividing wall between east and west Jerusalem as there was up till 1967 after Israel won the West Bank from Jordan. I visited in 1969 when I made friends with a young Muslim guy who showed me around.

statsfun · 05/03/2025 09:42

EasternStandard · 05/03/2025 09:21

Thanks @statsfun do you think this plan is doable?

I don't know.

We've seen that Arab states have managed to get past their desire to destroy Israel when it aligns sufficiently with their own interests.

Maybe if peace for the Palestinians starts to align more with external Arab interests - instead of those powers getting the benefit of harrying Israel at no cost to themselves, only cost to Palestinian civilians - things might shift.

They haven't said anything about how it would be done - concrete actions - and that's obviously the tricky bit. It certainly won't be fast. My biggest doubt is whether those Arab states (Egypt, Qatar, UAE, Saudi) will genuinely be able to stop interference from eg Iran.

But I'm willing to keep an open mind.

Whatsinanamehey · 05/03/2025 09:45

statsfun · 05/03/2025 09:42

I don't know.

We've seen that Arab states have managed to get past their desire to destroy Israel when it aligns sufficiently with their own interests.

Maybe if peace for the Palestinians starts to align more with external Arab interests - instead of those powers getting the benefit of harrying Israel at no cost to themselves, only cost to Palestinian civilians - things might shift.

They haven't said anything about how it would be done - concrete actions - and that's obviously the tricky bit. It certainly won't be fast. My biggest doubt is whether those Arab states (Egypt, Qatar, UAE, Saudi) will genuinely be able to stop interference from eg Iran.

But I'm willing to keep an open mind.

The Palestinians are generally more aligned with the other Arab states you mentioned. Hamas chose to align with Iran as they were probably the only ones who would provide them with weapons. I don't believe the PA has links with Iran? And the proposal indicates they would take over.

ImmediateReaction · 05/03/2025 09:47

mouthpipette · 05/03/2025 00:01

Sounds by far, the best proposal I've heard so far.

The major flaw in the plan is Hamas!

The Arab proposal completely ignores that Hamas are still there, how are they going to get rid of them. Otherwise, hamas will use rebuilding monies for themselves or deposit in banks in their own names.

If Hamas frees the hostages and offers to step aside, there could be peace and rebuilding.

Whatsinanamehey · 05/03/2025 09:48

The issue is, Mahmoud Abbas isn't very popular amongst the Palestinians. He's also 89 so maybe time to hand over his position to someone who will unify the different factions towards peace and the road towards a Palestinian state alongside Israel.

ImmediateReaction · 05/03/2025 09:56

statsfun · 05/03/2025 06:05

Is it possible to create such a credible political process?

Well, the US and UN clearly failed to do so, despite 75 years of trying. Concerted peace efforts by multiple US presidents, summits - international efforts and focus that other countries could only dream of - all failed.

Perhaps the Arab states will succeed.

It's entirely political - getting people whose only interest is to destroy Israel to agree to it's existence. Perhaps the Arab states are in a better position to do that. They understand it better than the US (having shared that intent themselves) and may be more trusted by the people who need to change their actions.

Israel will of course maintain the security control it needs in the meantime. They know all too well they can't rely on other countries words.

It might be a long path for the Gazans. No one will stump up the money until they are confident the rebuilt cities won't be destroyed again. Perhaps that will itself add internal pressure in Gaza to reach a solution. It must be the Gazans who get rid of Hamas, and make a choice to turn away from violence.

Edited

Once gaza agree not to fire missiles into Israel and concentrate entirely on rebuilding Gaza for the betterment of its citizens then. Would Hamas agree to that? If they change their mindset to look after their people rather than bring them into conflict then it could work. They could show willing by freeing tge hostages, putting down their weapons and looking towards peace. It would be amazing for everyone, Gazans and Israelis if peace could be agreed on.

BelleHathor · 05/03/2025 10:55

Whatsinanamehey · 05/03/2025 09:48

The issue is, Mahmoud Abbas isn't very popular amongst the Palestinians. He's also 89 so maybe time to hand over his position to someone who will unify the different factions towards peace and the road towards a Palestinian state alongside Israel.

You're right about Abbas, he is an obstacle who has allowed the status quo to prevail for too long. Part if the reason they've been no elections for nearly 20 years is because Abbas (and external parties) are fearful that Fatah will be completely wiped out.

I've found it interesting that instead of being factional, Hamas has negotiated for the release of Palestinians from all the different factions including Fatah (whom they fought a deadly war with in Gaza mainly with Fatah factions controlled by Dahlan) and also Palestinians in the West Bank.

Marwan Barghouti is often touted as the Palestinian Mandela, a man that could unite all groups. He was due to be released during the later phases of the current stalled ceasefire:

"Among Palestinians, Marwan Barghouti’s popularity is unsurpassed.

Politician and professor – and a peacemaker now imprisoned for armed resistance – the man regarded by many as Palestinians’ “Mandela” looms larger than ever amid the devastating Israel-Hamas war in Gaza and spiraling violence across the West Bank."

"His message of democracy, unity, and resistance to occupation is resonating today with Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza who are under attack, who distrust their autocratic leadership, and who would vote for him if given the chance. He is the only political figure who outpolls Hamas."
https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2024/0401/Palestinian-Mandela-Marwan-Barghouti-imprisoned-preacher-of-unity

Palestinian Mandela? Marwan Barghouti, imprisoned preacher of unity.

Marwan Barghouti’s popularity is unsurpassed. His message of democracy, unity, and resistance to occupation increasingly resonates today with Palestinians who are under attack, distrust their leadership, and would vote for him if given the chance.

https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2024/0401/Palestinian-Mandela-Marwan-Barghouti-imprisoned-preacher-of-unity

mouthpipette · 05/03/2025 11:12

MB favours a 2 state solution with Israel within 1967 borders.
Sounds pretty good to me.

ScrollingLeaves · 05/03/2025 12:35

statsfun · 05/03/2025 06:05

Is it possible to create such a credible political process?

Well, the US and UN clearly failed to do so, despite 75 years of trying. Concerted peace efforts by multiple US presidents, summits - international efforts and focus that other countries could only dream of - all failed.

Perhaps the Arab states will succeed.

It's entirely political - getting people whose only interest is to destroy Israel to agree to it's existence. Perhaps the Arab states are in a better position to do that. They understand it better than the US (having shared that intent themselves) and may be more trusted by the people who need to change their actions.

Israel will of course maintain the security control it needs in the meantime. They know all too well they can't rely on other countries words.

It might be a long path for the Gazans. No one will stump up the money until they are confident the rebuilt cities won't be destroyed again. Perhaps that will itself add internal pressure in Gaza to reach a solution. It must be the Gazans who get rid of Hamas, and make a choice to turn away from violence.

Edited

Re your statement, It's entirely political - getting people whose only interest is to destroy Israel to agree to it's existence.
I think you may not realise the extent to which it does work both ways.

Excerpt from Haaretz Sept 18 2024 without links.

War, Apartheid, Dehumanization: Polls Reveal Bleak Parallels Between Palestinians and Israelis
The latest joint Palestinian-Israeli Pulse survey shows a striking symmetry: Both Israelis and Palestinians feel that their victimhood justifies violence toward the other side

Eighty-five percent of Israeli Jews recently agreed, in a new Israeli-Palestinian joint survey, that "the victimization of Jews is the worst compared to other people that suffered from persecution and injustice." Among Palestinians, 83 percent agreed with the same statement, arguing that Palestinian victimization is the worst compared to all others.

Polls are an imperfect instrument, but the undeniable symmetry of responses to a few questions in this latest poll, conducted between July 18-29 by the Palestinian Center for Policy and Survey Research in Ramallah and the International Program in Conflict Resolution and Mediation at Tel Aviv University, seems to explain everything: the past, present, and likely future of the conflict.

As the poll shows, feelings of victimization fuel justifications for war and violence. Eighty percent of Palestinians believe that their recent years of suffering in Gaza justify October 7, and 84 percent of Israeli Jews believe that October 7 justifies the war. Eighty-nine percent of Palestinians believe the land "very much" belongs to them and 92 percent of Israeli Jews say the land very much belongs to them.

Over 60 percent of Palestinians believe that Israel's aim in the war in Gaza is to commit genocide – the top response out of four choices, three of them less extreme than that. The second most popular response, selected by over one-quarter of Palestinians (27 percent), was that Israel wants to conquer the land and expel the people. The remainder chose one of two milder answers, but only 2 percent believe that Israel seeks only to defend itself and restore security.

Similarly, two-thirds (66 percent) of Israeli Jews believe that on October 7, Palestinians sought to commit genocide against Jews. Precisely 27 percent believe that Palestinians wanted to conquer the land and expel the people. Only 3 percent believe Palestinians sought to defend themselves.

Expectations for the future follow these dour attitudes; most expect the war to spread. Two-thirds of Palestinians and a similar portion of Israelis (70 percent) think the war will expand to the West Bank. An absolute majority, over half on both sides, think the war will go regional and might even draw in Iran.

(List of related Haaretz articles)

  • Whether Harris or Trump, the U.S. won't fix Israel and Palestine
  • Netanyahu's map shows Israel 'from the river to the sea.' It's no accident
  • 'Israel's right to self-defense has a limit': Top EU diplomat on Netanyahu, settlers, Gaza

The symmetry of trends can seem surprising. Israelis and Palestinians experience vastly different realities of the occupation and this war. But the mind-set of victimhood and justifications for hostility are so similar as to represent almost a mirror image.

( End of first paragraphs of a much longer , thoughtful article which is worth looking up on archive ph)

^

Whatsinanamehey · 05/03/2025 14:55

The US and Israel have both rejected the plan, favouring Trump's plan (the ethnic cleansing one) instead.

EasterIssland · 05/03/2025 15:04

Whatsinanamehey · 05/03/2025 14:55

The US and Israel have both rejected the plan, favouring Trump's plan (the ethnic cleansing one) instead.

No surprise there. A criminal and someone with arrest warrants for war crimes won’t care about ethnics cleansing as long as it’s not them the ones being kicked out of their land

OP posts:
Whatsinanamehey · 05/03/2025 16:25

Wtf is going on?
The US has been holding secret talks with Hamas??

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/in-1st-us-holding-secret-direct-talks-with-hamas-aimed-at-freeing-american-hostages-deal-to-end-war/

EasternStandard · 05/03/2025 17:13

Whatsinanamehey · 05/03/2025 14:55

The US and Israel have both rejected the plan, favouring Trump's plan (the ethnic cleansing one) instead.

Where did you see that @Whatsinanamehey