Breaking News - Shiri Bibas has not been returned

[AniBocha]

https://news.sky.com/story/israel-says-it-has-not-received-hostages-remains-and-hamas-handed-over-unidentified-body-13313681

As if the anguish isn't enough!

Completely agree with you @SomethingFun. But sadly the ultimate logic of many is ... none of that would have happened if not for the existence of the Zionist entity/colonial endeavour/oppressive state that is Israel. In that paradigm Israelis can only ever be oppressors and Palestinians can only ever be victims.

Hamas weren't concerned about the Palestinian woman when they stood behind her so she was killed, nor did they care when they sent her body over to Isreal to cause pain.
Do they have storage full of 'useful' bodies?
It's all about their cause. They hate Isreal more than they love their friends and family.

Didn't see that. Apologies.
Please be careful before you generalise. It can give the impression that you are not arguing in good faith.

Nobody is saying they did? I hope her remains will be released soon if not already

Western reporters in Israel say she was the victim of a IDF bomb blast, that its entirely possible they had no idea they sent the wrong remains.. the truth is always the first to go in war.

Plus its not as if there are morgue facilities in Gaza.

However, if its true that Hamas or others murdered her and her children, that is truly evil, with no justification, why on earth did they take this family... its so tragic.

However, if its true that Hamas or others murdered her and her children, that is truly evil, with no justification, why on earth did they take this family... its so tragic.

Because they were extremely high-value hostages. I believe it wasn't actually Hamas that took them though. I think Hamas might have kept them alive as bargaining chips.

Please don't be very sorry. Arguing in 'Bad Faith' has been the dorm for some months on MN. What's the title of this thread, 'Breaking News - Shiri Bibas has not been returned'? And yet, the same people steer the conversation towards their interests, making the accuse they've piggybacked on others' remarks. They are not arguing in good faith. "Your instincts are correct"

Absolutely. It's embarrassing the efforts some posters will go to skirt around what they really want to say. Even with the topic of this thread. It feels like nothing is sacred.

It seems they have now

I find the whole thing terrible ,what humans do to each other is incredibly depressing and upsetting.Sheri Bibas and he beautiful baby have shocked me to the core .I keep seeing her darling face .I was awake the other night and I kept thinking of her .Sad isnt the right word somehow ,just unimaginably awful.World peace seems a long way away right now

Yes I seen on another thread someone else claimed it was not Hamas who took them either, some other terrorist group was mentioned, also Israel knew they were deceased since Nov 2023

How do you know Israel knew they were dead in November 2023?

'If' it is true. There was no justification in taking them. There was no justification in holding them. There was no justification in starting a war on 7 October. There was no justification in not protecting all civilians, Palestinian and Israeli alike. This is at the door of Hamas.

I don't think it's just a "claim": it's in the BBC report here:

As we reported earlier, the family of Shiri Bibas says that last night she was "brought home".
That came after the remains Hamas handed over in Gaza on Thursday turned out not to be hers.
By Friday night, Hamas handed over another body that Israel has now identified as hers.
The incident caused shock and anger in Israel.
In response, Hamas said there might have been an error, perhaps due - it said - to human remains becoming mixed due to Israeli air strikes.
That raises the question of why they were then able to provide her genuine remains so swiftly. No explanation of that has yet been given.

Israeli military spokesperson Daniel Hagari has dismissed Hamas's claim that Shiri Bibas and her children were killed in an Israeli air strike as lies.
Hamas was not the Palestinian armed faction that abducted Shiri Bibas or her children, nor is it believed to have held them afterwards.
That could suggest that Hamas did not have full command of the process of the handover of her body and perhaps didn't make necessary checks.
The body that was originally handed over is unknown, but it was not that of another hostage, according to Israel.
There is also the possibility that Hamas did it knowingly but that raises questions over why it would wish to endanger the already fragile ceasefire with such a blatantly provocative act.

Also Shiri's parents had been murdered at the same time. She must have been terrified.

Even if it wasn't Hamas (and actually I have read on more than one occasion it was more likely civilians) that doesn't change anything.

And there is no proof what was 'known' as Hamas are known to lie and manipulate.

To be able to get it right and return Shiri within 24 hours you can only assume Hamas knew exactly what they were doing and their motivation for doing it.

Thank you, a lot of misinformation going around

My thoughts also. This was a deliberate attempt by Hamas to cause as much pain and suffering for not only the Bibas family but for all in Israel and Jews around the world.

She doesn't. As I've said, the same people steer the conversation towards their interests, making the accuse they've piggybacked on others' remarks. They are not arguing in good faith or out of consideration or regard for the Bibas family. Their motivation is to discredit the Israeli government and distract us from the events of the past few days and the murders of Shiri, Ariel and Kfir.

It was a link someone had posted on another thread naming another terrorist group and claiming Israel knew they were dead but I can't find it now

on the world stage there is nothing to gain by sending the wrong person back and everything to lose..one only has to look at opinions since this has happened.
On this basis I think they just got the wrong person

Yes I've already said I don't thanks, I was replying to another poster who said it wasn't Hamas who killed the Bibas children, and I said yes I had seen that on another thread

So no evidence then but you repeat stuff from terrorist groups. We know the terrorists claimed they died then but provided no evidence and the bastards held onto the bodies. The bastards held onto the bodies of a mother and her children to use as bargaining chips and her husband all that time had no idea what had happened.

It was also reported when the names of the first hostages to be released were given to Israel on 23rd November 2023 ( for release the next day ). All hostages were children and women, the Family weren’t on the list as had been reported they had already died in an Israeli air strike.
Netanyahu requested the living only, at the time.

No. They didn’t deliberately hold onto the bodies.
They were offered during part of a ceasefire deal but Netanyahu specially said he would take the living only.