Breaking News - Shiri Bibas has not been returned

[AniBocha]

https://news.sky.com/story/israel-says-it-has-not-received-hostages-remains-and-hamas-handed-over-unidentified-body-13313681

As if the anguish isn't enough!

It's more than an opinion I'm afraid

Yes I do.
They, as I said previously, thought they were returning the right people.
Their ‘display’ at the return was obviously their way of reminding everyone how the family died.
Clearly that’s how they work. ( Although personally I think it was obvious news outlets would be updating, reminding and reporting stories of how they died on their return anyway. So was irrelevant ).

You are being crass, i.e. insensitive. You referenced the hostages being returned and being checked up on by the Red Cross like it is a regular occurrence and acceptable practice that we should be grateful for. There is nothing acceptable about taking civilians and holding them in captivity, dead or alive, and using them as human shields and bartering chips.

Your total lack of understanding is very apparent of this conflict and international humanitarian law, which has not been given to the hostages in full, as mentioned by SharonEllis. Plus, the chequered past between the Red Cross, Israel and Jews, as cited by stomachamelon.

Wow - You’re still on this thread about the Bibas family trying to convince us that Israel is to blame….
unbelievable .

WTF. How do you know they thought they were returning the right people? Why do you think they managed to find poor Shiri's body so quickly? How many bodies have they got stacked up there that they could accidentally make such a mistake? Their grotesque propaganda display with a huge antisemitic banner showing Netanyahu as a blood sucking vampire was just their way of showing the world how they want to portray how they died. And you are totally relaxed about that? Amd you accept the terrorists account of how they died and not the forensic report provided by the Israelis.

Are you aware that its illegal to support a proscribed terrorist organisation?

Their ‘display’ at the return was obviously their way of reminding everyone how the family died.

What does this even mean?

This thread has moved into a very disturbing place indeed.

This comment is just deflecting from my original post.
I commented
Netanyahu asked for the Red Cross to check on remaining hostages after the first hostage release.
Hamas allowed this to happen and it did.

Nothing more

Theres actually nothing difficult for anyone to understand about this. It’s just straight facts.

How very generous of Hamas.
Netanyahu and the hostages’ families also asked the Red Cross to take some medications to the hostages.
Red Criss refused/ claimed Hamas wouldn’t allow it.

@Liv999 but it's not though is it. Anymore than me saying the opposite.

@Stirabout all of that is supposition as well. You don't know any of that to be true and given their track history eg telling hostages on stage their whole family have been murdered there is not much evidence that they 'thought' anything.

Much like their display. No evidence that's what they wanted/ thought. Does cheering and dancing remind people how hostages died? How toddlers dragged away with their mother terrified went on to pass away?

I don't think they do anything without considering the optics. They just aren't the pleasant ones you think they are.

This.

Not once did I say Israel was to blame, I said Netanyahu was a terrible man, I don't think too many would disagree?

But something that I found odd about the thread from the outset was the way that the arrival of these anticipated offensive posters was referenced more than the tragic nature of what the thread was ostensibly about. So I question that.

I agree that there is no equivalence between Hamas and the Israel government, but only in terms of the death toll that has been achieved by each upon innocent people of a different nation. There is no comparison.

I’m sure everyone can play these tit for tat games as does both Hamas and The Israeli Government but it doesn’t help anyone ( as they are both up to it ie IG didn’t allow IRC in to check on the Palestinians imprisoned ) and clearly in terms of the conflict it certainly hasn’t either.

You said Netanyahu was a terrible man for prioritising living hostages over dead ones in a conversation which was implicitly defending Hostage taking terrorists and EXPLICITLY blaming Netanyahu for not negotiating for the Bibas families bodies over living hostages when the terrorists could have released the Bibas family dead or alive at ANY time. You seem to forget that taking hostages is illegal and its reprehensible for Israel to have to negotiate for them at all.

I didn’t say they were pleasant
I don’t think Hamas are pleasant
I don’t think the Israeli Government are pleasant and
I don’t think Netanyahu is pleasant

So now I have said it.

You'd think there would be 'nothing to gain on the world stage' by kidnapping a terrified mother and her two tiny children.
Or throwing grenades into bomb shelters packed with terrified civilians, and kidnapping the survivors, including one who had lost a hand in the blast (who was later killed)
Or parading the body of a young woman you recently killed through cheering crowds of your supporters.

But here we are.

You're making excuses of the 'Oh, they didn't really mean it!' variety.

“But something that I found odd about the thread from the outset was the way that the arrival of these anticipated offensive posters was referenced more than the tragic nature of what the thread was ostensibly about. So I question that.”
Hmm 🤔 Fair enough. I’ve had more than enough of deflection.

Perhaps you could help bring the thread back to the topic then . Do you want to talk about the horrific way Hamas has treated innocent families and babies - specifically the Bibas family - and what that tells us about the threat Hamas presents to Israel?
Hamas needs defeating. They have destroyed Palestinian lives and Israel lives .
I hope Yarden will live to see them defeated so no other family has to suffer like his.
I honour and respect the fact that the Bibas family do not want vengeance.

I was replying to another poster who said that Netanyahu did not want to deal with the dead bodies, I made a comment that he was awful, I did not make that comment myself, and the conversation was NOT defending hostage taking terrorists, I have no idea where that idea came from, not once did I blame Israel so dont twist my words

Well exactly.
Raping, torturing, killing people, taking hostages, killing some of them and parading others around amongst baying crowds, playing music at the release of hostages’ bodies - how does that look on the world stage?

But to assume they’ve released the wrong body on purpose, to cause even more pain - oh no, why would they do that? That would make them look bad, they won’t want that.

No, you are not getting away with this.
This is the conversation

SharonEllis · Today 12:55
We know the terrorists claimed they died then but provided no evidence and the bastards held onto the bodies. The bastards held onto the bodies of a mother and her children to use as bargaining chips and her husband all that time had no idea what had happened
Stirabout · Today 12:59
No. They didn’t deliberately hold onto the bodies.
They were offered during part of a ceasefire deal but Netanyahu specially said he would take the living only.

To which you replied
That is just terrible, what an awful man he really is.

So you were saying that Netanyahu was an 'awful man' for not negotiating for the bodies of the dead hostages over the bodies of living hostages. You completely omitted to mention that the 'awful' people here are the terrorists who took the hostages, killed them and yes deliberately held onto the bodies to use as bargaining chips. They could have released them. It did not even have to be part of deal What sort of barbarian makes deals with dead bodies. There is no reading of this conversation other than than you thought Netanyahu was 'terrible' for prioritising the living over the dead and that you thought he was the 'awful' party in this grotesque scenario.

@SharonEllis that's how I read it too.

I’m sure everyone can play these tit for tat games as does both Hamas and The Israeli Government but it doesn’t help anyone ( as they are both up to it ie IG didn’t allow IRC in to check on the Palestinians imprisoned ) and clearly in terms of the conflict it certainly hasn’t either.

It's just wild to me how people can present a proscribed terrorist organisation, and a democratically elected government, as if there was some sort of equivalence.

Mind you, the deliberate murder of children is presented as somehow an equivalence to collatoral deaths, so I suppose I shouldn't be too surprised.
Also the pretence that the war didn't have a catalyst and that Hamas aren't firing rockets. The pretence that Israel controlled Gazan borders out of some sort of malicious intent, not for national security. I could go on.

Basically a constant twisting, a constant blanking-out of any inconvenient fact that don't suit a chosen narrative, and a constant effort to ascribe the most bad-faith possible motives to Israel, to the point it starts to sound like blood libel.