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Conflict in the Middle East

Do people fully support Palestine?

1000 replies

Dawk · 11/02/2025 20:56

I read this article and the scales fell from my eyes a bit: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/11/amid-the-ceasefire-wrangling-how-popular-is-hamas-in-gaza-now

I hadn’t realised that a majority of Gazans want a conservative Islamist state and the complete destruction of Israel to create an Islamic state covering the whole country (from the river to the sea I guess). They also support violence and even the sacrifice of their own lives.

I am appalled by the destruction and loss of life in Gaza, but having read this article I can’t understand why support for Palestine isn’t more caveated. Why are people waving flags and supporting Gaza so unconditionally? When you look at the polling described in the article it seems fairly clear that many/most don’t actually want peace unless it follows the complete destruction of Israel.

For me it’s a bit like supporting Iran. I would never wave the Iranian flag around because of what the country stands for. In this case I am horrified by the scale of destruction wrought by the IDF so support Palestine completely in that respect but I’d never wave the flag or chant the slogans.

If you consider yourself ‘pro-Palestine’, what do you think of the ideology described in the article?

Amid the ceasefire wrangling, how popular is Hamas in Gaza now?

The group still projects a powerful presence but, after all the damage, it will need to divert blame if the truce collapses

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/11/amid-the-ceasefire-wrangling-how-popular-is-hamas-in-gaza-now

OP posts:
Thread gallery
21
Dawk · 12/02/2025 10:27

1dayatatime · 12/02/2025 10:22

@dairydebris

"Wow. Really saying the quiet part out loud here."

Actually I appreciate the honesty even if I strongly disagree with the view.

There are many more who share the same opinion but dress it up as either "there should be just one state where Palestinians and Israelis get along in peace and harmony toasting marshmallows around the campfire" or "there should be a peaceful two state solution where everyone gets on despite neither the Palestinians or the Israelis wanting it " etc etc.

Agree. In some ways coming down too heavily on extremist views just means people hide them and then you end up with all this plausible deniability which wastes so much energy.

OP posts:
joysexreno · 12/02/2025 10:29

gloriagloria · 11/02/2025 23:21

I would say I was "pro-Palestinian" in the fact that I support a two-state solution. Any two-state solution would need the Palestinian people and leadership to accept the existence of Israel and its borders. And also Israel would need to respect Palestinian borders - which raises the thorny question of what to do with around a million settlers. Both sides would be required to have massive changes in mindset and leadership to make this possible but I see this as the only possible solution. There have been times in history when a two-state solution was much more likely, and both sides were responsible for derailing this - many Israelis don't want to see a Palestinian state.

Edited

This is my view.

I can't stand by what Israel does with its settlements, and the way that Palestinians are treated.

However, that doesn't mean one side is bad and one good. Obviously some Palestinian people and groups are also behaving in ways that are wrong.

LightAngels · 12/02/2025 10:31

I feel a little bit like you OP and I feel quite conflicted.

When I have been in support of Palestine, I have separated in the my mind : the ordinary Palestinian people vs Hamas.

I have never been in support of Hamas for one second, of course! And it’s frustrating that people who speak in defence of Palestinians are automatically labelled Hamas supporters or people who hate Jews.

I did assume though that the majority of Palestines were not Hamas supporters and were as appalled by October 7th as I was, how can anyone possibly support that?

I knew that Hamas had been voted in, but I assumed that the elections were rigged/that people were forced to vote for Hamas and did so out of fear (in a similar way that the Taliban forced Afghans to vote for them). Look at the way that Hamas behave and it’s very clear that they couldn’t care less about the people of Gaza. They were happy for them all to die, women and children. It didn’t make sense to me that anyone would vote for them by choice.

I had followed a journalist from Gaza from the beginning of the most recent conflict and I had a lot of respect for him. One things that I felt a little uneasy about was the description all people killed as “martyrs” but then I thought that it is just a difference in language.

Recently, when the hostages were released, I went to his Instagram page to see if he had covered that, and if that was something celebrated. He hadn’t.

But there was a lot about the ceasefire agreement in the stories, that seemed to be described as victory. There were hundreds of comments on there from followers of his who DO clearly support Hamas and their aims, and no comeback from him against that.

I started to wonder if this man does support Hamas and if he did actually celebrate October 7th… I unfollowed him and some other accounts and I felt a little uneasy that I had seen him and his account in the way I did. I don’t believe for a second that the footage is fake though, there is no need for fake propaganda when the reality is so horrific.

When I saw the first hostage releases on tv, I was really shocked by the amount of Palestinians present, who weren’t Hamas, who were crowding and jeering. Some of those are the “ordinary people” who I have been in support of, but I didn’t know that they had such evil views and beliefs and behaviours.

I don’t know what the answers are but I know that there are innocent children in Gaza - who could of course grow up to support Hamas (and to be honest that seems extremely likely based on the horrendous situation they are growing up in at the hands of the IDF) - but they don’t have a choice though, regardless of parents beliefs or influence. They need to be protected but they aren’t being protected and Israel is behaving in an evil way when they drop bombs and make to effort to avoid civilian casualties.

LightAngels · 12/02/2025 10:40

I think that if the ceasefire is broken - as Trump wants (and I think it will be broken even if the all hostages are returned) then there has to be an open exit route for all who want to leave and support and transport and time tor this to happen. I can understand though that another country opening its borders will not want to be infiltrated with Hamas operatives and supporters, so again I don’t know what the answer is.

LetThereBeLove · 12/02/2025 10:45

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

The country is not only home to European and American Jews but also home to the 700+ Jews expelled from Arab countries in 1948 as well as Russian and Ethiopian Jews in the late 20th century.

Peacecanbe · 12/02/2025 10:45

I think if Israel breaks the ceasefire we should not sit by and watch them crush Palestine any longer. It is unthinkable that this continues any longer. How we have got to a place where Trump is goading WW3 I really don’t know, but we need some grown ups in the room.

ImmediateReaction · 12/02/2025 10:46

LetThereBeLove · 12/02/2025 10:45

The country is not only home to European and American Jews but also home to the 700+ Jews expelled from Arab countries in 1948 as well as Russian and Ethiopian Jews in the late 20th century.

And if course there children etc over the last 80 years or so. They were born there.

LetThereBeLove · 12/02/2025 10:47

joysexreno · 12/02/2025 10:29

This is my view.

I can't stand by what Israel does with its settlements, and the way that Palestinians are treated.

However, that doesn't mean one side is bad and one good. Obviously some Palestinian people and groups are also behaving in ways that are wrong.

behaving in ways that are wrong has to be the understatement of the year.

LetThereBeLove · 12/02/2025 11:08

LetThereBeLove · 12/02/2025 10:45

The country is not only home to European and American Jews but also home to the 700+ Jews expelled from Arab countries in 1948 as well as Russian and Ethiopian Jews in the late 20th century.

700,000+ not 700+

Dawk · 12/02/2025 11:10

Peacecanbe · 12/02/2025 10:45

I think if Israel breaks the ceasefire we should not sit by and watch them crush Palestine any longer. It is unthinkable that this continues any longer. How we have got to a place where Trump is goading WW3 I really don’t know, but we need some grown ups in the room.

Haven’t Hamas already broken the terms of the ceasefire? By stopping the hostage releases? I really think all the pressure now must be on Hamas to release them.

OP posts:
joysexreno · 12/02/2025 11:13

Dawk · 12/02/2025 11:10

Haven’t Hamas already broken the terms of the ceasefire? By stopping the hostage releases? I really think all the pressure now must be on Hamas to release them.

... hasn't Israel separately been openly planning to deport all Palestinians with the support of the US?

Peacecanbe · 12/02/2025 11:14

I think all attention should be on getting urgent support in to the Palestinian people.

dairydebris · 12/02/2025 11:17

Peacecanbe · 12/02/2025 11:14

I think all attention should be on getting urgent support in to the Palestinian people.

Edited

I think all attention should be on pressuring Hamas to release those innocent hostages.

Then there would be significant international pressure not to restart the war.

Wouldn't that be better? And easier?

Lalaloveya · 12/02/2025 11:22

crumpet · 12/02/2025 05:46

What happened in 1967? Oh yes, that was when an Arab coalition attacked Israel in the 6 day war.

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not. Things are so nuts around here in terms if revisionism it's hard to know.

gloriagloria · 12/02/2025 11:26

@dairydebris Yes, Hamas should release the hostages.
The Israeli government should keep their side of the ceasefire including not shooting civilians and allowing in aid (particularly shelter) in the agreed amounts, as well as stop their operations in the West Bank (not part of the ceasefire but still essential).
And Israel and the International community should vigorously reject Trumps plan to move the population permanently out of Gaza so there is some hope for the Palestinian people. to have a peaceful and autonomous future.
I think all those are needed as a minimum to stop further conflict.

dairydebris · 12/02/2025 11:32

gloriagloria · 12/02/2025 11:26

@dairydebris Yes, Hamas should release the hostages.
The Israeli government should keep their side of the ceasefire including not shooting civilians and allowing in aid (particularly shelter) in the agreed amounts, as well as stop their operations in the West Bank (not part of the ceasefire but still essential).
And Israel and the International community should vigorously reject Trumps plan to move the population permanently out of Gaza so there is some hope for the Palestinian people. to have a peaceful and autonomous future.
I think all those are needed as a minimum to stop further conflict.

Totally agree.

crumpet · 12/02/2025 11:35

Lalaloveya · 12/02/2025 11:22

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not. Things are so nuts around here in terms if revisionism it's hard to know.

I was simply stating a fact. In 1967 several countries (Egypt, Syria, Jordan and others) attacked Israel. It was called the 6 day war. As a result of which borders were redefined.

LetThereBeLove · 12/02/2025 11:39

crumpet · 12/02/2025 11:35

I was simply stating a fact. In 1967 several countries (Egypt, Syria, Jordan and others) attacked Israel. It was called the 6 day war. As a result of which borders were redefined.

This. No 'rivisionism' at all.

Lalaloveya · 12/02/2025 11:44

LetThereBeLove · 12/02/2025 10:01

Just as the billions of aid to Hamas goes a long way into their leaders pockets living the good life in Qatar and Turkey as well as buying rockets etc with which to bombard Israel. It certainly doesn't go on the defense of the population of Gaza while Israel spends $$$ on the defense of its citizens with the Iron Dome, for example.

Do you really think Israel would allow an Iron Dome in Gaza? They don't even let apple juice or green tents in ffs.

Lalaloveya · 12/02/2025 11:46

Adropinthepond · 12/02/2025 09:54

I'm sure the three billion in aid that Israel recieves annually from the US must go a long way.

It was nearly 18bn between October 23 and October 24 in military aid.

Lalaloveya · 12/02/2025 11:47

crumpet · 12/02/2025 11:35

I was simply stating a fact. In 1967 several countries (Egypt, Syria, Jordan and others) attacked Israel. It was called the 6 day war. As a result of which borders were redefined.

Except that Israel attacked first.

LetThereBeLove · 12/02/2025 11:47

Lalaloveya · 12/02/2025 11:44

Do you really think Israel would allow an Iron Dome in Gaza? They don't even let apple juice or green tents in ffs.

You really believe Hamas propaganda don't you! Hamas could afford a defence system , it just chooses not to. Instead they spend $$$ in weaponry and machinery to build their massive underground tunnels.

Bluewhitebox · 12/02/2025 11:48

I agree OP.

It appears that too many Palestinian people do not want a two state solution, they want the complete destruction of Israel. Just watch the you tube videos by the Ask Project to realise this.

Hamas are Islamists. For them, this is not just a territorial battle, its religious. They will never accept anything other than the eradication of Jews.

The West I think do not understand this. After 75 years it is hard to comprehend how they have not understood this yet. There was a war 75 years ago and Palestine lost. Instead of using all the international aid and support they have received to build successfully for their people since , they have squandered all that money and resources on keeping in a perpetual conflict they can never win.

I think those individuals in Gaza who have had enough of all this and want a chance to build a peaceful and better life for their families should be able to seek and be granted refugee status in another country. I trust all those countries who have been openly supporting Palestine will be glad to receive them.

LetThereBeLove · 12/02/2025 11:48

Lalaloveya · 12/02/2025 11:47

Except that Israel attacked first.

Pre emptive strike.

Peacecanbe · 12/02/2025 11:49

dairydebris · 12/02/2025 11:17

I think all attention should be on pressuring Hamas to release those innocent hostages.

Then there would be significant international pressure not to restart the war.

Wouldn't that be better? And easier?

No that’s what you think, I was giving my opinion.

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