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Conflict in the Middle East
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Original poster
Daftasabroom · 28/01/2025 12:07

Fordian · 28/01/2025 09:32

Your 'brutal suppression' is another person's desire to eradicate once and for all the people who did Oct 7, who have promised to do it again, who spend international aid in building tunnels beneath civilian infrastructure so they can cry 'foul!' when those civilians are in the firing line, who haven't stopped shelling Israel throughout this war, and whose very own motto calls for the eradication of Israel.

Given the provocation of Oct 7, any one of us, given the resources, would have acted just the same way as Israel has. This is why much of the world is sitting on its hands, including Gaza's neighbours, who see Gazans as being trouble-on-a-stick proxying for the area's real bully-boy, Iran. Which is why they look the other way as Israel do what they perceive to be area's dirty work for them. And why no one wants Gazans on their soil, having watched Jordan, Lebanon and Egypt.

And as an aside, where was the international outcry and condemnation on Oct 8th?

As for 'selling arms', the very phone you're typing on contains Israeli designed components. Are you throwing that to the ground in disgust? Are all your investments free of the taint of Israel? We sell arms to everyone. It's a major export industry in the UK. We don't have a lot else, other than blue hair dye.

Show quote history

What makes you think Israel's brutal suppression of Palestinians started on 7/10?

It didn't. It's been going on for close to eighty years.

I hope there's no provocation that would cause me to slaughter forty to sixty thousand innocent people.

OP posts:
OchaLove · 28/01/2025 12:19

BelleHathor · 26/01/2025 12:32

Another indication that Trump has again staffed his administration with idiots who have no idea of the geopolitical reality today.

Similar to his "I'll end the Ukraine war on day 1" (which has now grown to 100 days) statement this will be fruitless.

The Egyptians, Jordanians and other countries in the region know that any displacement will be used by the Israeli government in the future to "invade" their countries to deal with any "threat".

If Trump wishes to push this through, the Palestinians should be allowed to migrate to America, after all it was their weapons that caused the destruction. I'm sure his base will fully support that!

Trump has filled his administration with zionists.

OchaLove · 28/01/2025 12:21

letsallchant · 26/01/2025 17:00

Just thinking back to all the folk saying pre election that they simply couldn't vote for either Biden the genocide supporter or Harris as his sidekick in office, cos their moral code would not be persuaded that either were better than Trump. 'They're all the same!' OK.

Internal politics played a bigger role for people to vote for Trump such as illegal immigration, increasing crime. Democrats kind of made it possible for Trump to win.

OchaLove · 28/01/2025 13:10

Fordian · 27/01/2025 10:31

Everybody thinks they're living in The Most Important Time, Ever, spluttering in despair and disbelief as the great arc of history sweeps along.

One century, your own people are on the ascendant, next you're slaves to the new ruling elite, actual or economic. Treaties are made, then broken; alliances surge then crumble; nations rise and fall; stronger peoples overcome weaker peoples; populations are decimated or move on, voluntarily or enforced; deepening religious beliefs, population imbalances, natural resource availability and natural disasters then scarcity drive conflict and reshape maps.

While millions are displaced either voluntarily- the great sweep of the global south wanting a piece of the prosperous north, or coercively- much of central Africa on the move away from religious war, ethnic cleaning, genocide and famine, somehow the fate of the Gazans has achieved a centrality in a section of western minds that flies in the face of the realities that history has demonstrated to us.

Trumps suggestion is impractical for one major reason: the neighbours do not want them, the reasons for which others have already detailed. But the concept that there's anything special about this conflict versus any others is only driven by TikTok and antisemitism.

Given the public shift of sentiment from the most powerful leader on Earth, I think a degree of pragmatism is called for, and an understanding that some of the players in this war need to rethink their strategy.

Let us recall that Trump BEFORE he was even inaugurated, brought about a ceasefire.

Nice intro. But I can't agree with your reasoning on why this conflict got this much attention in the west. I'm in USA and our mainstream media reported the conflict for weeks, for months, they still do. Famous anchors travelled to Israel and they published stories of each of the victims and hostages. None of the other conflicts get this much attention by the mainstream media. Our politicians started to pledge their alliance with Israel. We started to send more money to Israel. American states that are ruined by natural disasters don't get this much coverage in our news or none of the financial aid that Israel gets. On the other hand, we are humans, we tend to notice how the Palestinian suffering is minimized. They are just numbers in death in news, not many faces to remember. On top of it, some of us started to read history and found out how the root of the issue is colonialism. So no, this conflict didn't get this much attention because of tiktok or antisemitism but because the way it is presented to us by making it a central issue while dictating us who to side with. But we're only humans and we tend to notice.

Wintersgirl · 28/01/2025 14:07

What makes you think Israel's brutal suppression of Palestinians started on 7/10?

The amount of people that still think that is scary, Palestinians have been suffering for decades at the hands of Israel....

MangoAndMelon · 28/01/2025 14:36

Wintersgirl · 28/01/2025 14:07

What makes you think Israel's brutal suppression of Palestinians started on 7/10?

The amount of people that still think that is scary, Palestinians have been suffering for decades at the hands of Israel....

Well, sadly there was no Instagram/tiktok/twitter then.... So how could people possibly know (sarcasm)

Look at world news, if it doesn't happen on SM, it's not happening essentially. Congo currently, anyone? Sudan was also in minds of people for a bit simply because some doctors (who cared about the others...) got stuck there and needed lift. And as the plane landed and went inyo hangar, so did attention span of people. Possible forced return of Uyghur escapees to China? Not instagrammable I guess. I heard people wondering about so sudden war in Syria. No, not sudden development. Sudden war. 40% of Ethiopia has urgent lack of food. Oh well. Nearly 8 million Venezuelans had to leave country due to violence in last 10 years or so, economic issues etc. Oh well.

It ain't on Insta, it ain't

This isn't whataboutery btw. I am just illustrating that people have short attention span, if it's not shown they don't know and SM is not particularly educating in this. Hence why people think this last year+ was a brand new conflict

Daftasabroom · 28/01/2025 15:54

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Fordian · 28/01/2025 16:34

@OchaLove I'd imagine the US covers the Middle East because of its relatively large Jewish population, many of whom, due to their work ethic, diligence, entrepreneurial spirit and wealth generation- are in positions of power.

Why are they there? Because they fled Europe. Why were they in Europe? Because the countries of the Middle East and around the southern and eastern Mediterranean, where the Jewish diaspora had lived for sometimes hundreds of years, ethnically cleansed them.

Huwipulotu · 28/01/2025 18:11

@Fordian

you are incorrect saying that Jews were ethnically cleansed from Middle Eastern countries before they lived to Europe.

firstly - there were no Middle Eastern countries as before WW1 it was the Ottoman Empire. Jews actually lived th ere to avoid persecution from Europe.

it is the Christians/Europeans who have been most antisemitic. The exodus of Jews from Middle Eastern countries was mostly post 1948 and formation of Israel.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Ottoman_Empire

History of the Jews in the Ottoman Empire - Wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Ottoman_Empire

EasternStandard · 28/01/2025 18:22

@OchaLove there's a shared history between Jewish people and the US and U.K.

One thing that made me realise how indebted to Jewish people the allies were was the Second World War and advancements in science

A lot of Jewish scientists fled and built a weapon before the Germans

I know it's only one aspect but I recommend reading on just how much they contributed

Huwipulotu · 28/01/2025 18:31

@EasternStandard yes Jewish scientists made a huge impact on the development of the bomb. Thank goodness the Nazis didn’t have access to their intellect.

the thing I find incredible is that the CIA actively used former Nazis in their efforts against communism post-War Germany. They also brought a lot of Nazi scientists over to work on their space program. Influential US politicians like the appalling Dulles brothers (one became head of CIA the other secretary of state) were actually quite antisemitic and sympathetic to Nazi cause. I suspect they were influential in the USA not joining the fight against Germany until after Pearl Harbour.

Huwipulotu · 28/01/2025 19:50

@EasterIssland

can you imagine if the suggestion was to move the Jewish population? (And to be clear I absolutely am not proposing or supporting this - I am doing it to show the double standards that apply and the despicable racist way that the Arabs are treated.

its this crazy gaslighting world where if you criticise the Israeli government you are called an antisemite yet you can talk about ethnically cleansing Gaza and that’s just fine??

world is looking over a precipice

Original poster
Daftasabroom · 28/01/2025 20:01

@Huwipulotu I fear we are beyond the precipice.

On another thread I have been asked not to mention the Israeli cemeteries of numbers. The topic being limited to hostages held by Hamas.

OP posts:
twilighttavern · 28/01/2025 20:09

Daftasabroom · 28/01/2025 20:01

@Huwipulotu I fear we are beyond the precipice.

On another thread I have been asked not to mention the Israeli cemeteries of numbers. The topic being limited to hostages held by Hamas.

Is it not reasonable that a thread about the hostages can be about hostages? Do you not have hundreds of other threads to post about that plus the ability to start one?

Huwipulotu · 28/01/2025 20:12

@Daftasabroom i had never heard of cemeteries of numbers. How utterly grim and yet further evidence of how the Israeli government view Palestinians as sub human.

we Are perhaps beyond the precipice, but my concern is there is an even deeper precipice at the bottom of this one. And that terrifies me.

Original poster
Daftasabroom · 28/01/2025 20:14

twilighttavern · 28/01/2025 20:09

Is it not reasonable that a thread about the hostages can be about hostages? Do you not have hundreds of other threads to post about that plus the ability to start one?

Show quote history

My post was very very specifically about hostages.

I honestly believe we cannot, and should not, discriminate between either Israeli or Palestinian. We must not ignore or minimize the suffering of one group in favor of another.

OP posts:
Whatsinanamehey · 28/01/2025 20:20

What is the cemeteries of numbers? Never heard of it before.

Huwipulotu · 28/01/2025 20:29

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EasternStandard · 28/01/2025 20:30

We must not ignore or minimize the suffering of one group in favor of another.

I agree with you there. It's the only way to move on

Original poster
Daftasabroom · 28/01/2025 20:32

Whatsinanamehey · 28/01/2025 20:20

What is the cemeteries of numbers? Never heard of it before.

Israel holds the bodies of many hundreds of Palestinians who have died in IDF custody, or otherwise, interred in cemeteries where the only grave markers are numbers. No religious or spiritual rights have been bestowed - in a society that holds the treatment of the deceased in high regard. Many of the graves hold more than one body.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/mourning-missing-israels-cemeteries-numbers

Mourning the missing in Israel's 'cemeteries of numbers'

Palestinian families are still awaiting for the bodies of their relatives, which remain in Israeli custody

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/mourning-missing-israels-cemeteries-numbers

OP posts:
twilighttavern · 28/01/2025 20:34

Daftasabroom · 28/01/2025 20:14

My post was very very specifically about hostages.

I honestly believe we cannot, and should not, discriminate between either Israeli or Palestinian. We must not ignore or minimize the suffering of one group in favor of another.

Show quote history

No it wasn't. The thread is about Israeli hostages held on Gaza. But apparently there isn't even allowed to be a single thread about them.

twilighttavern · 28/01/2025 20:34

This reply has been deleted

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Yes, because that's not what the thread is about and it's extremely disrespectful.

Or weee yoy suggesting another reason?

EasternStandard · 28/01/2025 20:40

I can understand pp would like a thread about hostages

My agreement in pp was generally

Original poster
Daftasabroom · 28/01/2025 21:03

twilighttavern · 28/01/2025 20:34

No it wasn't. The thread is about Israeli hostages held on Gaza. But apparently there isn't even allowed to be a single thread about them.

Show quote history

Nor should there be. This conflict is so much bigger. If we ignore the wider issues around the Hamas hostages, and the context, we are in very great danger of not addressing those issues.

And, in all likelihood having to address the same issues in the future just as we have done ( or not) in the past.

I wouldn't dream of making that post on the bereavement topic.

Exceptionalism and separatism has a huge part to play in the current situation, digging deeper into division will not improve things.

It would be a huge disrespect to those who have lost their lives, and a disservice to the survivors and their families if we cannot confront and learn.

OP posts: