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Conflict in the Middle East
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EasternStandard · 28/01/2025 21:11

@Daftasabroom let people have a thread on hostages

There is room for many threads

LetThereBeLove · 28/01/2025 21:17

OchaLove · 28/01/2025 12:19

Trump has filled his administration with zionists.

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Do you mean Jews?

Whatsinanamehey · 28/01/2025 21:20

Daftasabroom · 28/01/2025 20:32

Israel holds the bodies of many hundreds of Palestinians who have died in IDF custody, or otherwise, interred in cemeteries where the only grave markers are numbers. No religious or spiritual rights have been bestowed - in a society that holds the treatment of the deceased in high regard. Many of the graves hold more than one body.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/mourning-missing-israels-cemeteries-numbers

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Thank you, don't really even know what to even say to this, it's really disturbing.

Original poster
Daftasabroom · 28/01/2025 21:23

LetThereBeLove · 28/01/2025 21:17

Do you mean Jews?

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There are some very powerful fundamentalist Christian Zionists who believe a second coming can only happen in a Jewish Israel or Jerusalem.

OP posts:
BelleHathor · 28/01/2025 21:47

LetThereBeLove · 28/01/2025 21:17

Do you mean Jews?

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No, they obviously mean the very evangelical American brand of "I will bless those, who bless Israel" Christian Zionists, who promote a particular brand of Christianity promoted in the Scofield Bible. Trump has openly staffed his administration with such folk.

Just days ago at her confirmation hearing Elise Stefanik openly confirmed that she "backs Israeli claims of biblical rights to West Bank"

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jan/21/trump-un-elise-stefanik-israel

https://forward.com/opinion/675457/mike-huckabee-christian-zionism-israel-evangelical/

https://www.npr.org/2024/12/02/nx-s1-5193348/what-trump-teams-christian-zionism-beliefs-mean-for-gaza-war-west-bank-settlements

Trump UN nominee backs Israeli claims of biblical rights to West Bank

Elise Stefanik’s comments at Senate hearing align her with Israeli far right and highlight US-UN rifts over Israel policy

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jan/21/trump-un-elise-stefanik-israel

twilighttavern · 28/01/2025 21:52

Daftasabroom · 28/01/2025 21:03

Nor should there be. This conflict is so much bigger. If we ignore the wider issues around the Hamas hostages, and the context, we are in very great danger of not addressing those issues.

And, in all likelihood having to address the same issues in the future just as we have done ( or not) in the past.

I wouldn't dream of making that post on the bereavement topic.

Exceptionalism and separatism has a huge part to play in the current situation, digging deeper into division will not improve things.

It would be a huge disrespect to those who have lost their lives, and a disservice to the survivors and their families if we cannot confront and learn.

Edited
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You're saying there shouldn't be a single thread about the hostages? There can be fifteen pages and counting of threads about the conflict (including about Palestinian prisoners), but a thread dedicated to sharing updates, hopes, fears about the hostages should just not be allowed on mumsnet?

Are you going to dedicate the finite minutes of your life to try to derail every hostage thread from now on?

And I'm not sure what the bereavement topic has to do with anything.

EasternStandard · 28/01/2025 21:59

@twilighttavern it's quite upsetting that someone would say that

I'm sure the same wouldn't be welcomed for the many threads on other suffering

Dulra · 28/01/2025 22:01

BelleHathor · 28/01/2025 21:47

No, they obviously mean the very evangelical American brand of "I will bless those, who bless Israel" Christian Zionists, who promote a particular brand of Christianity promoted in the Scofield Bible. Trump has openly staffed his administration with such folk.

Just days ago at her confirmation hearing Elise Stefanik openly confirmed that she "backs Israeli claims of biblical rights to West Bank"

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/jan/21/trump-un-elise-stefanik-israel

https://forward.com/opinion/675457/mike-huckabee-christian-zionism-israel-evangelical/

https://www.npr.org/2024/12/02/nx-s1-5193348/what-trump-teams-christian-zionism-beliefs-mean-for-gaza-war-west-bank-settlements

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Yes it is very clear what the Trump administrations agenda is.

Dulra · 28/01/2025 22:03

twilighttavern · 28/01/2025 21:52

You're saying there shouldn't be a single thread about the hostages? There can be fifteen pages and counting of threads about the conflict (including about Palestinian prisoners), but a thread dedicated to sharing updates, hopes, fears about the hostages should just not be allowed on mumsnet?

Are you going to dedicate the finite minutes of your life to try to derail every hostage thread from now on?

And I'm not sure what the bereavement topic has to do with anything.

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Are you going to dedicate the finite minutes of your life to try to derail every hostage thread from now on?

What an inappropriate unpleasant thing to say.

I find it ironic you are accusing a poster of derailment when you are doing just that on this thread.

EasterIssland · 28/01/2025 22:07

twilighttavern · 28/01/2025 21:52

You're saying there shouldn't be a single thread about the hostages? There can be fifteen pages and counting of threads about the conflict (including about Palestinian prisoners), but a thread dedicated to sharing updates, hopes, fears about the hostages should just not be allowed on mumsnet?

Are you going to dedicate the finite minutes of your life to try to derail every hostage thread from now on?

And I'm not sure what the bereavement topic has to do with anything.

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including about Palestinian prisoners)

is there anything wrong about having a thread about those that have been under detention for something that isn’t a crime and have been exposed to tortures etc ?

I have not got a problem with a hostages thread. But to me these people deserve the same respect as those that were taken by Israel

Original poster
Daftasabroom · 28/01/2025 22:24

@twilighttavern @EasterIssland You're saying there shouldn't be a single thread about the hostages?

I have not said nor implied that

I have been quite clear.

OP posts:
Youngheartsalittletogetherness · 28/01/2025 22:31

Cash from chaos
Contracts for his mate's.

twilighttavern · 28/01/2025 22:34

Daftasabroom · 28/01/2025 22:24

@twilighttavern @EasterIssland You're saying there shouldn't be a single thread about the hostages?

I have not said nor implied that

I have been quite clear.

I said "But apparently there isn't even allowed to be a single thread about them."

To which you said "Nor should there be".

So yes, you were quite clear.

twilighttavern · 28/01/2025 22:35

EasterIssland · 28/01/2025 22:07

including about Palestinian prisoners)

is there anything wrong about having a thread about those that have been under detention for something that isn’t a crime and have been exposed to tortures etc ?

I have not got a problem with a hostages thread. But to me these people deserve the same respect as those that were taken by Israel

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No of course there isn't, obviously.

Huwipulotu · 28/01/2025 22:40

@twilighttavern

what are your thoughts on Trumps idea of moving 1 million Palestinians out of Gaza?

given that’s the topic of this thread perhaps you could share your opinion- which I of course hope is utter condemnation of ethnic cleansing.

twilighttavern · 28/01/2025 23:10

Huwipulotu · 28/01/2025 22:40

@twilighttavern

what are your thoughts on Trumps idea of moving 1 million Palestinians out of Gaza?

given that’s the topic of this thread perhaps you could share your opinion- which I of course hope is utter condemnation of ethnic cleansing.

Trump is a cunt who says whatever he thinks will benefit him in the moment and hopefully his plan won't come to pass.

But apparently a thread isn't allowed to be about just one thing so...

OchaLove · 29/01/2025 01:16

LetThereBeLove · 28/01/2025 21:17

Do you mean Jews?

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No, not necessarily. Not all Jews are zionists so the word zionist doesn't automatically imply Jews. We know this from Jewish students' or organizations like Jewish Voice for Peace's support for pro-Palestine protests. In USA, there are many Christian Zionists, these are mostly evangelicals and their support is rooted in Scofield bible as @BelleHathor stated above.* *Also, AIPAC is very influential in US politics and they support Zionists. Republican party was already under AIPAC influence (mostly voluntarily) but we see lately that a Democrat candidate AIPAC opposes has very slim chance of getting elected.

OchaLove · 29/01/2025 01:32

Fordian · 28/01/2025 16:34

@OchaLove I'd imagine the US covers the Middle East because of its relatively large Jewish population, many of whom, due to their work ethic, diligence, entrepreneurial spirit and wealth generation- are in positions of power.

Why are they there? Because they fled Europe. Why were they in Europe? Because the countries of the Middle East and around the southern and eastern Mediterranean, where the Jewish diaspora had lived for sometimes hundreds of years, ethnically cleansed them.

That's understandable and feasible. But when people have opposing thoughts and when they express them it should be considered understandable and feasible as well, they shouldn't be shut down as antisemitic.

DevilledEgg · 29/01/2025 01:36

Why doesn't he just build them a wall

OchaLove · 29/01/2025 01:47

Huwipulotu · 28/01/2025 18:11

@Fordian

you are incorrect saying that Jews were ethnically cleansed from Middle Eastern countries before they lived to Europe.

firstly - there were no Middle Eastern countries as before WW1 it was the Ottoman Empire. Jews actually lived th ere to avoid persecution from Europe.

it is the Christians/Europeans who have been most antisemitic. The exodus of Jews from Middle Eastern countries was mostly post 1948 and formation of Israel.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Ottoman_Empire

The way I see it in Europe, the systemic hate against Jews of previous century is deliberately being replaced by systemic hate against Muslims in this century. Same effort in USA by Republicans/Christian Zionists/Zionists.

statsfun · 29/01/2025 06:48

OchaLove · 29/01/2025 01:47

The way I see it in Europe, the systemic hate against Jews of previous century is deliberately being replaced by systemic hate against Muslims in this century. Same effort in USA by Republicans/Christian Zionists/Zionists.

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No, it isn't. And it's DARVO to say that.

mids2019 · 29/01/2025 07:09

I think who is going to put their hands in their pockets to rebuild Gaza? The displacement of Palestinians may become a forced reality simply because families will be unwilling to wait for reconstruction of residential buildings and associated infrastructure so there may be a relatively covert exodus of Palesitinians to other countries anyway.

The Palestinians staying maybe the most hard headed about ensuring misery for the sake of their land and probably encompass a lot of the populace that support Hamas and want to continue their perceived existential conflict with Israel. If we have a new generation of Palestinians whose raison detre is to exact revenge on Israel we have a real problem. stored up for the future. If having Gaza as it currently stands is just a precursor to some sort of second war in 10 years time then we are in a room cycle really.

In terms of basic humanity and hope for the future a dispersal of Palestinians may actually offer hope as they will not be locked in to a terrorist organisation whose sole function seems to have been to launch a heinous suicidal attack on it's neighbours.

There may be hope for Gaza under new leadership and a commitment to leave but if Hamas continue to be viewed as viable leaders Gaza is doomed to be frank. The Palestinians to some degree forfeits d choice of leadership by supporting Hamas governance and a continued support of the ideology of this group will make other powers in the world think that migration is the only answer to a lasting peace.

mids2019 · 29/01/2025 07:11

Peace in the last paragraph not leave.

Dulra · 29/01/2025 07:24

mids2019 · 29/01/2025 07:09

I think who is going to put their hands in their pockets to rebuild Gaza? The displacement of Palestinians may become a forced reality simply because families will be unwilling to wait for reconstruction of residential buildings and associated infrastructure so there may be a relatively covert exodus of Palesitinians to other countries anyway.

The Palestinians staying maybe the most hard headed about ensuring misery for the sake of their land and probably encompass a lot of the populace that support Hamas and want to continue their perceived existential conflict with Israel. If we have a new generation of Palestinians whose raison detre is to exact revenge on Israel we have a real problem. stored up for the future. If having Gaza as it currently stands is just a precursor to some sort of second war in 10 years time then we are in a room cycle really.

In terms of basic humanity and hope for the future a dispersal of Palestinians may actually offer hope as they will not be locked in to a terrorist organisation whose sole function seems to have been to launch a heinous suicidal attack on it's neighbours.

There may be hope for Gaza under new leadership and a commitment to leave but if Hamas continue to be viewed as viable leaders Gaza is doomed to be frank. The Palestinians to some degree forfeits d choice of leadership by supporting Hamas governance and a continued support of the ideology of this group will make other powers in the world think that migration is the only answer to a lasting peace.

In terms of basic humanity and hope for the future a dispersal of Palestinians may actually offer hope as they will not be locked in to a terrorist organisation whose sole function seems to have been to launch a heinous suicidal attack on it's neighbours

So a cleansing of the area to bring peace? What becomes of Gaza once they're gone? Who will be at peace?. You are looking at this solely in relation to what will benefit Israel.

EasterIssland · 29/01/2025 07:56

mids2019 · 29/01/2025 07:09

I think who is going to put their hands in their pockets to rebuild Gaza? The displacement of Palestinians may become a forced reality simply because families will be unwilling to wait for reconstruction of residential buildings and associated infrastructure so there may be a relatively covert exodus of Palesitinians to other countries anyway.

The Palestinians staying maybe the most hard headed about ensuring misery for the sake of their land and probably encompass a lot of the populace that support Hamas and want to continue their perceived existential conflict with Israel. If we have a new generation of Palestinians whose raison detre is to exact revenge on Israel we have a real problem. stored up for the future. If having Gaza as it currently stands is just a precursor to some sort of second war in 10 years time then we are in a room cycle really.

In terms of basic humanity and hope for the future a dispersal of Palestinians may actually offer hope as they will not be locked in to a terrorist organisation whose sole function seems to have been to launch a heinous suicidal attack on it's neighbours.

There may be hope for Gaza under new leadership and a commitment to leave but if Hamas continue to be viewed as viable leaders Gaza is doomed to be frank. The Palestinians to some degree forfeits d choice of leadership by supporting Hamas governance and a continued support of the ideology of this group will make other powers in the world think that migration is the only answer to a lasting peace.

It’s the second time you suggest ethnic cleansing of Gaza to be a good idea in this thread. Is it only Palestinians or any ethnic cleanup that is a good idea in your opinion?