Hamas and Gaza celebrates

[LetThereBeLove]

Hillel Nueur, International human rights lawyer, writer, Executive Director of United Nations Watch writes: 'Never before in history has a side claimed that they suffered a genocide and at the same time that they won the war they had started.'

If you read only a handful of messages on social media today and watch the news, people in Gaza are celebrating and Hamas state they will continue (their barbarity) until Israel is eradicated. I won't repost these as anyone can find them easily.

You can just read through this thread to find a few.

Yes. Point me at a poster in this thread that has said exactly that. “Israel started their attacks with no provocation”

ps the first person in this thread who says that is yourself when you use the sentence to accuse others of saying it.

@EasterIssland saying "taking into account that Israel started this war In order to destroy Hamas and Hamas is not destroyed …" ignores the provocation that Israel responded to.

And again.

And I have already apologised and explained that I used the incorrect verb. That it wasn’t start but declare which multiple new agencies on 8-10-2023 used. Also I never denied the provocation , I’ve always supported the idea of Israel self defending. Just I have not supported the idea of Self defending by committing war crimes. It’s two different things

What is utter delusion is accusing people of supporting terrorise sympathisers when those posters have criticised time after time Hamas. Nobody in this thread has provided support for Hamas but Palestinians. What it’s really utter delusion is the opening of this thread where the OP sided a terrorist organisation With those living in the same country when they’ve expressed the happiness that there is a ceasefire. The world is happy that there is a ceasefire , bar those with extremism views in the Israeli government, are those celebrating this ceasefire supporters of Hamas? If I was being bombarded day after day for a crime I hadn’t committed and an announcement was made that I could go back to my (quite likely destroyed house) and start rebuilding my life or searching for those relatives that are missing I’d be celebrating it. There must be nothing worse that living under a war

@LinnettdeBelleforte What do you mean by destroyed? And how does one go about that? Unless you have concrete notions of what you mean by that, it seems like people are bandying about with saying things without knowing what that actually entails. What about the time when Mossad agents killed a Hamas leader? Or did Hamas start that as well? I’m not excusing Hamas’ actions, but I think it’s unfair for Palestinians to lose their home’s especially the ones who gave their homes to refugees only to find that they’ve taken over their property. Israel was established in 1948. This is the starting point of conflict. Everyone seemed to coexist before that. 7th October is just another talking point and yet countless dates where IDF soldiers wantonly murder and rape are forgotten about. People are deliberately targeted once they get home to have an even worse impact, hospitals are being targeted, charities are also being targeted to discourage their actions and only Hamas are being blamed for using “human shields”?

@PurpleChrayn Please stop trying to tar people by using such accusations. I’ve yet to see a post that claims what you think you’re claiming. Unless you’re referring to the pro-Israeli posts as “terrorist sympathisers”? In which case, that sounds very anti-Semitic.

What appalling lies. Israel did not start this war. Hamas did, then cowered in its tunnels whilst its citizens were killed above ground in the war it started, and then gloried in the death of its own citizens.

It’s unbelievable that ideologically captured idiots in the West have celebrated Hamas. These idiots cannot see what is right front of their own eyes.

@mistmirror What tunnels are you talking about? I keep on reading about tunnels and yet nobody seems to show proof except for Israel’s concept videos of what it thinks the tunnels look like just to justify destroying hospitals which is a war crime.

By this reasoning, conflicts can never end. The mere fact a conflict once started, means, even when a resolution is reached, it can be restarted. And whoever restarted it is not to blame, as there was conflict there previously.

This is a perfect example of the levels of desperation Anti -Israel activists have to go to, to maintain their position that Israel is the bad guy and their side is the good guy victim, even after the ‘good guy’ openly committed well planned atrocities designed to provoke a violent war on their own people.

They have to resort to denying reality happened. Instead reality is reframed as conspiracy.

Israel have made all sorts of claims about what they found in Gaza, but of course because they have absolutely refused to allow independent observers or press in we really don’t know do we?

Well, there would have been no need to negotiate if Hamas has not taken the hostages, in an attack they spent years preparing for and pouring money, resources and time into, that could have been spent instead on building up Gaza for its citizens.

Hamas could also have saved its citizens by handing over its arms and releasing the hostages.

You seem to blame Israel for seeking to defend itself against an enemy who attacked its citizens, in peace time. in the most barabaric way, and is committed to the destruction of Israel and its citizens.

It’s astonishing really isn’t it? Everything Israel says is lies, all the footage Hamas took of their own attacks, lies.

When you only believe what backs up your view, but deny what counters it, you’ve allowed yourself to be captured by ideology.

Everything Israel says is lies,
No that is not the poster what said is it? They were pointing out that Israel has yet to provide evidence of some of their claims

When you only believe what backs up your view,
This can go both ways

you’ve allowed yourself to be captured by ideology.
Whose ideology, no one here is captured by any ideology just because we are not ready to believe Israel and their claims with out independent verified evidence?

I think the day independent investigators and observers get access to Gaza will mean we can get verified evidence of what has happened.

Recognising the importance of independent confirmation is the opposite of being captured by an ideology. Governments and terrorist organisations can lie about things and can view, interpret and present information from their own perspective when that might not be the full picture. Independent confirmation has less bias and goes through its own review processes. It needs to be free of control from either opposing party - free to document, investigate and report what is. This is particularly important when there are track records of inconsistencies in parties' own accounts, concerns about criminal activity (terrorism, torture, violations of international law), allegations of fraud and deception, etc. The Israeli government and Hamas have both shown conduct which impacts upon their credibility. So, independent assessments are important.

I don’t think anyone would support war crimes. But again to be clear this would include both sides committing war crimes. The type of war crime and magnitude of these crimes may be different but both sides have allegedly committed them nonetheless. I only say allegedly because until they are tried and convicted in an international court they are allegedly.

What do you want, names?
Yes well poster usernames obviously, otherwise you are just indirectly accusing everyone. I haven't found any post that states Israel started the attack without provocation bar yours, hence the confusion

exactly. Hence there are accusations in this thread that are just twisting words of those they don’t agree with as nobody has expressed support for Hamas or said that Israel declared the war without any provocation,

This is nonsense. The existence of an extensive network of tunnels is beyond doubt and Hamas is totally open about it.
www.reuters.com/graphics/ISRAEL-PALESTINIANS/GAZA-TUNNELS/gkvldmzorvb/

Will Israel continue to finance Hamas?

@ExitPersuedByAMemory this is useful in that it corrects a misplaced view in your pp

@oodiks I dont think anyone else thinks you're accusing everyone & we all know that you are reflectings things that have been said. The idea that you pick out and list individual usernames every time anyone wants to say anything is to over personalise things. I wish we could talk about issues and stop endlessly drilling down into individual posters opinions & trying to find gotchas.