Hamas and Gaza celebrates

[LetThereBeLove]

Hillel Nueur, International human rights lawyer, writer, Executive Director of United Nations Watch writes: 'Never before in history has a side claimed that they suffered a genocide and at the same time that they won the war they had started.'

If you read only a handful of messages on social media today and watch the news, people in Gaza are celebrating and Hamas state they will continue (their barbarity) until Israel is eradicated. I won't repost these as anyone can find them easily.

independent forensic expert and unfettered access to international journalists

the sooner they’re allowed in the sooner we can know the effect of this war and the real numbers of those death so we don’t need to relay on Hamas and / or Israel for information

i love that when you are not in echo chamber you leave since you just want people to repeat your illusions

Yes I did think they may not understand the definition of an echo chamber. There aren't many posters on these threads granted but those that are here don't agree on much.

Its willfull ignorance ! I do not believe they did know they do know they just do not care

By international laws ( which the Israeli government totally ignores), they have to provide concrete evidence before targeting medical facilities.
Saying that Hamas are there isn't enough, yet it is used time and time again.

It is truly appalling.

Do you know what's truly astonishing?

There isn't space for productive discussion on MN when you post this kind of content.

Criticism of Israel turns into the demonisation of Israel's citizens.

You deliberately shared someone else's negative content to shame those two Israeli women publicly on MN.

You search for, interpret, favour, and recall information in a way that confirms or strengthens what you already believe about all Israeli Jews. This is called 'Confirmation Bias'.

The filters on social media platforms give you information that agrees with your beliefs and excludes opposing views.

That's why finding it on any social media platform is so easy.

Look what I found tonight on YouTube by just typing in 'What do Palestinians think of Hamas, Jews and Israel?'

What she did to ' publicly shame those two women' was so awful that you had to go and do the same thing? Either it's wrong fullstop or it's just wrong to do it to Israeli women, your reply would seem to indicate you feel it's the latter.

Are you denying that the Palestinians (ordinary Palestinians, not just Hamas) have very ugly things to say about Israel and Israelis, or are you also asserting that this only works one way?

For me the point was that we often hear about Palestinians being indoctrinated against Israelis. Israel questions the curriculum of Palestinian schools etc

It is acknowledged less frequently that it could work both ways despite the way we see settlers behave etc.

But you are right. We should also look at what people are doing in Israel to promote peace.

No. That wasn't indicated at all by my post. I'm not sure where you pulled that idea out from.

@GentleScroller i am publicly shaming them ? They knew they were being interviewed for social media what are you on about ?

I never said there is not hate for Israelis from palestinians in gaza of course there is, there are being thrown out of their properties and being treated appallingly .Israelis enjoy a far better life than palestinians and you to a knowledge that there is a problem with the way they think as well is not just the "evil" palestinians who want to kill jews !

There is hate on both sides what israel is doing is not making things any better as long as there is oppression and injustice groups like hamas will thrive .
When palestinians have hope for a better life then they are less likely to be supportive of hamas

So you object to me re-posting a video demonising Palestinians.

Good, its a shame you did not point out the actions of immigrant101.

You remained silent.

But it appears we are in agreement. It is wrong to demonise Palestinians and Israelis.

Thank you for allowing me to reiterate;
'There isn't space for productive discussion on MN when you post this kind of content'.

Let's hope it puts an end to it for good. Don't you agree NoisyBear?

I think that you should abide by your own morals. If you are going to berate people for doing something, following up by doing the exact same thing invalidates any point you may have had. You could have made your point without sharing a video if you truly believed what you said in your post. Instead your post is completely meaningless at its best. At its worst it may show that you place more value on some women over others.

What grates you the most? The fact your prejudices against Israelis have been exposed.

or

The realisation that you can now see the disconnection between what you think the Palestinian cause is and what Palestinians believe their cause is?

That video exposed some uncomfortable truths.

But you want to remove even the most basic expectations and responsibilities from Palestinians without questioning anything they do or say.

They don't need or want your platitude. They aren't children that need to be led by the hands of people living in the West. You're dogmatic presumptions about the Palestinian cause do it a disservice.

I didn't watch either video. I have no idea what they contain. My post is literally what it says. You berated someone for doing something and then did the exact same thing. If its wrong in your opinion to do it to Israel women unless you view Palestinians as lesser then you would think that it is wrong to do the same thing to Palestinian women. I have been extremely clear in my point, if you don't want to address what I am saying and prefer to go on a rant about Palestinians that's fine.

@GentleScroller
Are you referring to all Palestinians? That’s a sweeping generalisation. You don’t think there may have been an element of confirmation bias in the creation of the video? The snippets also don’t give context to the discussion.

The title of the video is called the Wild West Bank. Not sure the comments of these Palestinians is the wildest thing that actually happens in the West Bank. You can see lots of articles of violence settlers are committing in the West Bank in most major news outlets. Do you think we should generalise their behaviour to all of Israelis? Of course not.

Please can I ask, from the average law abiding Palestinian (which I hope you can acknowledge most of them will be) - what is their basic expectation and responsibility that they are not undertaking?

@noisybear why didn’t you watch the videos? They're just clips of people - who know they're on camera - giving their opinion.

I've seen other similar (less stupidly branded) video projects with very similar opinions given by Palestinians from before Oct 7th. I've never seen anything to make me doubt that that those opinions are widespread.

Both videos are useful, whilst taking them for what they are - a snapshot- and recognising that not everyone of either nationality will share those opinions.

There's no point in outsiders trying to craft a solution which they like, whilst ignoring the reality of what the people living there think, and how they will continue to behave. You might almost say that's a rather colonial approach.

@polka83 - I'd say that the basic expectation and responsibility of law abiding Palestinian citizens would be to refrain from violence themselves, not hide hostages, and support the removal of terrorists.

And given the amount of international effort and money going into trying to create a 2SS, I'd also expect them to support trying to achieve that - otherwise we may as well all stop bothering.

I personally don't have any particularly strong feelings either way about videos of consenting adults with capacity who know they are being filmed being shared.

The poster I was addressing in my posts had what appeared to be very strong issues with the initial video that was shared, she berated the poster for sharing it and accused her of deliberately trying to publicly shame Israeli women.

Perhaps you should ask her why there is a problem with sharing the opinions of consenting Israelis but not of Palestinians, I don't understand it either and she doesn't seem eager to share it with me.

@statsfun
That sounds entirely reasonable expectation from both Palestinians and Israelis. I am not sure how many average Palestinians were involved in keeping hostages in Gaza (very few given their population) - but I imagine they would have readily given them back to their families if their own loved ones lives could be saved by a ceasefire.

I would expect Israel not to have laws or enforce laws that differentially treat Palestinians and Israelis, and for the maltreatment of Palestinian prisoners to be stopped. Can you imagine an Israeli child being killed by an Israeli sniper or being sent to prison for throwing a stone (and then to also not have access to a trial)

Both Palestinians and Israelis should support / elect parties that constructively engage in the 2SS

I fear some on here are not aware of the extent of their own prejudices. It’s astounding.

Please can I have evidence for your statements - @SharonEllis and @LinnettdeBelleforte as they are pretty inflammatory.

There was an adult population of approximately 1 million. There were 251 hostages. A ratio of 4000 to 1. So if the hostages were kept in homes individually - which there is some evidence they were not, and a very generous estimate of 4 adults per house hold- each hostage would have to kept in 1000 different households. Given length of war - each hostage would have to be moved over 2 times each day. I highly doubt most Palestinians were involved in housing the hostages.

Have you also seen how much of Gaza has been flattened and how many Palestinians have lost their homes and were constantly driven from one area to another?! Do you think they carried hostages on their carts in full view and then housed them in their tents?

No comments on what is reasonable expectations of the state of Israel towards Palestinians in the WB?

Good grief, they were pretty simple and very well evidenced statements - its all out there. Im certainly not bothering to analyse your made up data (who said most Palestinians were involved in housing the hostages??) nor am I going to be compelled to make statements on whatever you want me to talk about.

Sorry - not seen any evidence for your sweeping statements.

Of course you are not compelled to justify how Israel treats Palestinians but by not doing so, please understand that others will make assumptions as to why you are not / unable to.