Hamas and Gaza celebrates

[LetThereBeLove]

Hillel Nueur, International human rights lawyer, writer, Executive Director of United Nations Watch writes: 'Never before in history has a side claimed that they suffered a genocide and at the same time that they won the war they had started.'

If you read only a handful of messages on social media today and watch the news, people in Gaza are celebrating and Hamas state they will continue (their barbarity) until Israel is eradicated. I won't repost these as anyone can find them easily.

Over ten hospitals bombed, some more than once, resulting in many deaths and unspeakable carnage. Yet, it sounds like some people are trying to excuse it.
I thought we were all on the same page about how despicable these actions are but clearly not.

Israel keep bulldozing people's home. They also have a problem with settlers setting peoples homes on fire. They have a problem with settlers building on land that isn't theirs. Would it be acceptable to you if there was a blockade on Israel to prevent them from getting their hand on heavy machinery? Anything that could be used to start fires? Anything they could use to build?

The bunker Israel built?

The tunnels under Gaza are well known but they are far from "new".
https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2014/07/26/335332220/the-long-history-of-the-gaza-tunnels

And journalists when they’ve visited these tunnels(IDF has invited several of them to tours to these tunnels ) under the hospitals haven’t been proven that there was a Hamas HQ beneath them (so no reason to bomb / request to empty them). Also, doctors have spoken about not seeing Hamas using them for their military purposes

so these tunnels exist? Yes
are Hamas using them? Yes
are Hamas using the tunnels beneath the hospitals ? Still to be proven

No it does not have to be a 'command centre'. It has to be used for military purposes, and other conditions are in place too. Full briefing on the law here https://uklficharity.com/a-briefing-note-on-hospital

Exactly. There has to be proof it was used for military purposes. You can't just bomb a hospital on the premise that a tunnel or bunker exists underground.

You can if the tunnel is being used for military purposes. They arent wine cellars.

That's exactly what I said?

Israel built the one at Al shifa as 'overflow' for the hospital apparently. Not a wine cellar. Did they provide proof that their bunker was being used by Hamas recently, I mean actual proof not a cgi video dreamt up by people with big imaginations. You will admit that they never showed any proof that their cgi animations were anything but fantasy?

Exactly what I said earlier.

@NoisyBear those animations as well as the guy with the list was almost like watching a satire or a comedy if their actions were not so vile

So as long as Hamas use hospitals and schools as their bases, they are free to do whatever they want with no consequences? You seriously think that's reasonable?

I was setting out the international legal framework. I think people who deliberately carry out military operations in civilian buildings are psychopaths.

Again hamas is a terrorist organisation Israel is supposed to be a democratic state and an ally why are we comparing the two ?
I know what you are going to say next "human shields" is like a script
Hamas are not in west bank take a look at the latest videos coming out of there these days
Israel lost the media war give it up no one believes your excuses anymore
Was the word health organisation van on top of a hamas tunnel as well? I lost count of all the incidents israel
Is "investigating"

I think we are just supposed to pretend that those things didn't happen, that seems to be the way it goes. It does beg the question though why did Israel go full on dreaming up a detailed animation if they had actual proof that Hamas were operating from the bunker that Israel built?

Here is a review article about a book on role of denial in how Israel acts towards Palestinians. It’s written by a left wing Israeli historian.

« In his book, “States of Denial: Knowing about Atrocities and Suffering,” sociologist Stanley Cohen discussed the “special case” of Israel. He was pondering the readiness of many Israelis to take in official propaganda, mythology and self-justification – disseminated and maintained by establishment antennae – through no physical enforcement (unlike other regimes, where repression is done with the help of truncheons and automatic firearms). In Israel you don’t throw dissidents into a damp dungeon, researchers are not tossed into trenches to die, there is no secret police to bring the full might of the law against citizens in the dark of the night.
“Many topics are known and not-known at the same time. Israel is a country full of ‘open secrets,'” writes Cohen. Indubitably, the facts regarding what Israel has been doing to the Palestinians for years have been largely available to the Israeli public: violence and killing, administrative detentions, robbery of property and banishment from lands, daily attacks by settlers and the Israeli military, systematic violations of international law, torture and more. To be precise, they are “available” to those who wish to know. »

https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/knowing-and-not-knowing-how-israelis-live-in-denial/

@Polka83 i saw Alot of street interviews of israelis talking about the war and it does look like they cant hear themselves talking is like they do not acknowledge they are talking about humans
Example below

www.instagram.com/reel/DB48yeEJI9P/?igsh=aGV5azBlYTF2aGg4

Is truly astonishing

@Pebblesonthebeach40 So if Israel knows this, why does it still bomb civilian populations? Are you also saying that if someone takes over another person, somehow they also lose the right to resist? They have no right to defend themselves against an apartheid? Is this why the Israeli government was ok with bulldozing homes to expand the settler communities.

Why is it with all that sophisticated gear, the IDF waits for its targets to go home to ensure mass destruction? How is that linked to Hamas? If Hamas is wrong for targeting civilians, don’t you think the Israeli government is as well? The IDF and the Israeli government have committed war crimes under their justification that Hamas is operating under hospitals when time and time again all the proof they had was one hospital that had a bunker created by Israel combined with some CGI footage. Did this justify the loss of innocent lives? Babies being killed?

I can never forget the picture that Jamie Lee Curtis shared with the captions “TERROR FROM THE SKIES” and then promptly deleting her post when it was pointed that these were Palestinian children and not Israelis.

And what do you mean by “moving of the goal posts”?? I think you are doing that by saying that “it doesn’t have to be a legit target under international law”. Your words not mine. What do you mean that it doesn’t have to be a legit target? You’re seriously saying that it’s ok to commit war crimes under the basis of speculation? That truly is disgusting.

@SharonEllis Who do you mean by “we”? You don’t speak for me. So now you’re saying these tunnels are air-conditioned? As though they’re new? I cannot believe that you are justifying bombing hospitals under the basis of speculation.

You've started by posting a post of another. You've then tagged me in that post asking me questions about a post I didn't post. Youve then told me I've said things I haven't said (it's not my post!) and said it's disgusting. MN Conflict thread in the middle east, threads are most odd.

@Pebblesonthebeach40 I was meant to be quoting this post but I ended up quoting @SharonEllis instead. But my point still stands because you’re both essentially saying the same things.

Go back and read what I was responding to, and then read what I actually said fgs. You have misquoted me.

@immigrant101

We hear about Israelis are concerned about indoctrination of Palestinians against Jewish people. The video is an example that shows how it also works the other way too. Very sad that people can live with the obvious oppression of fellow humans and appear to have such little insight into how extreme their views appear.