Hamas and Gaza celebrates

[LetThereBeLove]

Hillel Nueur, International human rights lawyer, writer, Executive Director of United Nations Watch writes: 'Never before in history has a side claimed that they suffered a genocide and at the same time that they won the war they had started.'

If you read only a handful of messages on social media today and watch the news, people in Gaza are celebrating and Hamas state they will continue (their barbarity) until Israel is eradicated. I won't repost these as anyone can find them easily.

I wasn't aware you valued my contributions on this thread. I am flattered.

Well, there are a terrorist organisation so comparing them to the only democracy in the ME tells you everything you need to know.

I have no idea what this means. But I do think its funny that Israel is held to the highest standards with no allowance for what they are dealing with, while apparently Hamas are little children who are held to no standards at all. If that is the case why isnt the number 1 priority of Palestinian allies to get rid of Hamas? Where is the huge public pressure? If Hamas's support was cut off and other nations worked with Israel to get rid of Hamas and put a moderate government in charge, Hamas would be gone. The extremists in Israel would also be marginalised.

Israel is held to the standards of any other democracy. That means adhering to the international laws and conventions they have signed up to.
It isn't for other nations or Israel to put a government in place in Palestine. It is for the Palestinians to be granted self-determination and decide for themselves.

What 'highest standard' is Israel held to though? They have said and done appalling things for decades and the US has handed them $18billion dollars this year. For years and years their inhumane treatment of people has been all but ignored by Western governments who continue to trade with them without sanctions and who let's face it have looked the other way at countless atrocities.

No standards for Hamas? Where is the billions of aid to Hamas, the trade with Hamas, the standing ovation for Hamas? The world leaders rushed to Israels aid after Oct 7 and watched as Israel flattened Gaza, killed and maimed 1000s of civillians or in the words of that Israeli minister ruined, disintegrated and rendered it uninhabitable. They have 1000s of people in torture camps where they are starved, beaten and gang raped. The only way Hamas are being treated like children is if you recognise that Israel are treating Hamas and children the same way, bombing them, starving them.

Most countries recognise that you cannot bomb Hamas out of existence(they still stood by and watched Israel do it though because of those high standards you talk about). Do you really want huge public pressure for a 2 state solution and the removal of 10% of Israels population from the West Bank? Because that is what the majority of people think will eradicate Hamas.

Where is the billions of aid to Hamas, the trade with Hamas, the standing ovation for Hamas?

You're having a laugh. Billions of $$$ in aid have been sent to Gaza over the years. It was used to build tunnels underneath homes, schools, hospitals and mosques so that Hamas terrorists could live and plan their horrific enterprises, while also spending money on rockets with which to bombard Israel, often on a daily basis.

The world as a whole has indeed supported Gaza since 7 October 2023 and there has been a plethora of Israel hate and a huge rise in anti semitism, as if Jews in the diaspora are responsible for the Israeli government whose need to protect their citizens is paramount.

For me, as a woman, one of the most shocking things among many shocking things, is the complete silence of the #MeToo movement about the horrific brutality towards women and girls on 7th October 2023.

As for standing ovation for Hamas - almost every week there is 'an ovation', as you put it, in the form of the marches in central London that cost Londoners a fortune in policing. There are similar evens on the USA on college campuses etc. I could go on but I have a life to live, unlike the 94 hostages including babies still captured by Hamas in Gaza.

@NoisyBear I was talking about on here & in the pro-Palestinian/anti-Israel movement in general. I dont have time to address every inaccuracy in your post but to your last point

you really want huge public pressure for a 2 state solution and the removal of 10% of Israels population from the West Bank? Because that is what the majority of people think will eradicate Hamas.

Yes, of course I want public pressure for a 2 state solution (an awful lot of marchers seem to want 1 state, judging by their chants, speeches & some of the posters) & the removal of illegal settlers from the West Bank. That is what most people who are genuinely interested in peace want.

Nobody with any sense or knowlege believes for one minute that that will eradicate Hamas. Eradicating Hamas is a prerequisite for 2 states.

Eradicating Hamas is unlikely to happen, if it hasn't happened despite much of Gaza being destroyed. A more likely solution is to replace them.

That would be ideal, if only elections could be held and the Palestinians have a free vote. Sadly, judging by yesterday's events and photos I suspect Hamas would prevail in Gaza.

Wrong again.

Israel took the Golan Heights in 1967 as part of a defensive attack. Syria had been using it to fire rockets into Northern Israel.

Ever heard of the Yom Kippur war? The treaty of 1974.

Syria has outright refused to enter into any peace talks about it and according to that treaty, Israel has the right to right to ensure it's own security.
The Golan Heights are a strategic bit of land that has been used as a rocket base against Israel.

But I do think its funny that Israel is held to the highest standards with no allowance for what they are dealing with, while apparently Hamas are little children who are held to no standards at all.
@SharonEllis Indeed and I'm pretty sure there is a name for that.

NoisyBear: No standards for Hamas? Where is the billions of aid to Hamas, the trade with Hamas,

What are you talking about?!
Palestine has had billions and billions in aid.
There are marches every week.

Absolutely ridiculous comment.

I visited the Golan Heights in 1968 (tourists are no longer allowed there) and could see exactly where Syrians could (and had) fired onto the kibbutzim below. The word Heights tells you everything you need to know about this particular border.

For me, as a woman, one of the most shocking things among many shocking things, is the complete silence of the #MeToo movement about the horrific brutality towards women and girls on 7th October 2023.

There really was not complete silence about the horrific brutality towards women and girls on Oct 7 unless you have been in isolation since then. Just on mumsnet there were multiple threads on the feminism board about it. The UN has tried to investigate it. It has been spoken about quite a lot.

I haven't seen any threads about the rape and sexual assault of women and girls in Israeli detention. In fact I have seen threads where people have been horrified that these poor women and girls will be saved by being released over the next few weeks.

Can you tell the difference between giving aid to civillians and giving it to a terrorist organisation? I mean I know Israel seem to find it extremely difficult to tell the difference between the two but I thought we were better than that?

Yet when Ireland, Spain and Norway recognised Palestine last year they were branded as antisemitic? You want pressure but not that type of pressure no?

Its very difficult to give aid directly to civilians Aid is generally delivered wirh at least the imvolvement if not direction of whoever is in power. In Gaza, Hamas. We KNOW that Hamas has diverted and manipulated aid for years and unwra and the international community have not done enough about it.

Oh right. You realise it wasn't just on mumsnet that it was talked about? It has been widely acknowledged and talked about for the past 15months, it has had its own hashtags across social media rather than #metoo. The UN have tried to investigate it. What kind of movement were you hoping to see?

Also in your initial post you claimed that there was 'complete silence'? Do you think that that is accurate or is your complaint that there was complete silence from one particular movement rather than complete silence all around which clearly wasn't the case?

A unilateral declaration is just grandstanding. What peace process was that recognition part of? Hamas & the PA are both highly problematic & in power. Im talking about a real peace process.

Exactly this.

Did you read what those countries said at the time of why they made the decision to recognise Palestine? It was all quite thoroughly explained and then disregarded by people who preferred to yell about how it was anti Israel.

Perhaps you can explain what type of pressure you would to see?

Sexual violence is normalised and excused in the media all the time, but more so if you are an Israeli Jew.

The UN’s independent expert for Palestinian human rights, Francesca Albanese, expressed doubt about the findings of a landmark UN report which found evidence of Hamas’s sexual violence committed on October 7.

She has deliberately shed doubt on the conclusions of the report by a senior UN official published in March, which found “reasonable grounds to believe” that Hamas committed conflict-related sexual violence — including rape and gang rape — occurred across multiple locations of Israel and the Gaza periphery during October 7.

Is that evidence good enough for you of blatant anti-Israel Jewish bias led by a UN official?

If you don't believe the rape and sexual assault of women and girls in Israeli detention is being thoroughly investigated, why don't you file a complaint with Francesca Albanese? She's apparently the expert on Palestinian human rights.