Hamas and Gaza celebrates

[LetThereBeLove]

Hillel Nueur, International human rights lawyer, writer, Executive Director of United Nations Watch writes: 'Never before in history has a side claimed that they suffered a genocide and at the same time that they won the war they had started.'

If you read only a handful of messages on social media today and watch the news, people in Gaza are celebrating and Hamas state they will continue (their barbarity) until Israel is eradicated. I won't repost these as anyone can find them easily.

Sexual violence is normalised and excused in the media all the time, but more so if you are an Israeli Jew.

@SharonEllis lots of things are excused both on here and in the public forum when it comes to Israeli Jews. 'Cos you know.....

@GentleScroller sorry that was meant for you. Multitasking!?

I don't think that sexual violence as a weapon of war is taken seriously enough, full stop. No matter who the victims are. Ukraine, Israel, Gaza, Sudan, Syria and I'm sure many more just in the past few years.

Do you think that sexual violence in Israeli detention is being taken seriously enough?

Oh my days.

Many human rights groups were either slow to respond, made false equivalencies, or remained silent. It was only after weeks of pressure that they finally condemned Hamas.

It took the UN eight weeks to put out a statement. 8 weeks!

And yet, when a report with unsubstantiated accusations of sexual violence levied against Israel was published, organisations commented within hour.

All sexual violence is abhorrent but 8 weeks silence and then doubting about the findings from the UN whose focus is on the protection of women is not acceptable.

Of course this is all despite Hamas filming (and denying) it.

Your post doesn't really correspond to what the poster claimed to be honest. You yourself acknowledge that there has not been 'complete silence'. There are indeed grievances around how it was dealt with in the immediate aftermath, unfortunately it seems very common that sexual violence in conflict zones in minimised or not given the headlines it deserves.

Although it seems that that particular posters problem was with the #metoo movement and tbh I haven't heard anything of the #metoo movement for quite a few years now so I can't say what they do or don't comment on these days. I was under the impression that the main focus of that particular movement was around sexual harrasment and abuse in the work place but I may be wrong, like I said it's been a few years since I have heard anything surrounding #metoo.

@Halbiiamz What do you mean? I’m so confused by what you’re trying to imply. I’m also confused by this “Israel has only ever acted defensively…”

@ArtTheClown While Israel undoubtedly faces ongoing security concerns, particularly after the 7 October attacks, it is crucial to recognise that many of its actions over the years have been disproportionate and, at times, in violation of international law. Since its founding in 1948, Israel has received over $146 billion in aid from the United States, the vast majority of which has been military assistance. Last year alone, Israel received over $20 billion from the US. This consistent financial support has underpinned policies that have exacerbated tensions, including settlement expansions and military operations.

For example, Israel has been widely criticised for bulldozing Palestinian homes to make way for illegal settler communities, a practice that predates the formation of Hamas. These actions have been condemned by the international community as violations of international law, including numerous UN resolutions. Furthermore, Mossad has engaged in assassinations outside Israel’s borders, and the IDF has tragically killed Israeli civilians under mistaken circumstances, such as those waving white flags.

The disproportionate focus on Hamas often overshadows these broader systemic issues. Israel’s policies, including military blockades and settlement expansion, have been ongoing for decades and have consistently undermined any meaningful path to peace. Security concerns are valid, but they cannot excuse the historical and ongoing injustices that fuel the conflict. But sure, let’s just blame Hamas for everything as though only October 7th is the only important date in Israel’s history.

@SpunkyCritic Are you denying the harm that Israel has caused to Palestinians? Do you think it has done Gaza a great service?

You seem to be blaming Hamas solely for the lack of infrastructure and development in Gaza.

Hamas are the de facto government in Gaza and therefore responsible for infrastructure. Unfortunately, it is difficult to get building materials into Gaza because Hamas keep using it to build tunnels, and rockets, so Israel has to limit the amount they have access to. Perhaps if Hamas were more focused on supporting their people in Palestine than on destroying Israel, they would be able to create better conditions for their people.

The Israeli government has acted to purposely make life difficult for people in Gaza.

»A US diplomatic cable revealed by WikiLeaks last year quoted Israeli diplomats as saying they wanted to "keep Gaza's economy on the brink of collapse". »

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/oct/17/israeli-military-calorie-limit-gaza

Yet the Israeli government kept funding going to Hamas as a way of bolstering them and undermining the PA. The Israeli government - Netanyahu - thought this would reduce the chance of a 2SS.

Make life difficult for those in Gaza, make a 2SS impossible, blame it all on Hamas, whilst propping up Hamas. This is what some believe Israelis’ government has been doing.

https://www.thenation.com/article/world/why-netanyahu-bolstered-hamas/tnamp/

https://www.972mag.com/netanyahu-hamas-october-7-adam-raz/

A great deal of the US aid goes into the iron dome which is there because Israel faces a constant existential threat primarily from Iran and its proxies, long before 7 October. 7 October & its aftermath has just brought into focus how essential that support is. Its worth pointing out that Israel is pretty self sufficient apart from the iron dome.

@Oodiks What does a de facto government have actual control or power over? Do you seriously think that Israel would allow that sort of control when it controls the fuel, electricity etc. for Palestine? The aid convoy system in Gaza is designed to fail. There is a reason why Gaza, which is essentially a strip, has been annexed so it’s easier to shut off anything going in or out whether there were rockets fired or not. There’s a reason why many refer to it as the Gaza Strip.

Israeli settlers have attacked West Bank villages as soon as aid trucks reach Gaza and somehow the Israeli government expects little to no resistance? Does Hamas really have its own funding for infrastructure? Or is it reliant on Israel for building materials which can be withheld whenever it wishes? Then there is a sudden shock and surprise when other countries weigh in and provide support, but even when there were UN arms embargoes to Israel, Russia and China chose to ignore this and continued on their merry way.

So it seems that there are tunnels, but clearly not under hospitals. What was Israel’s justification for stopping food? Surely even food can’t be used to build rockets? If it wasn’t Hamas, there would have been something else in its place because eventually Palestinians might have resisted living in an apartheid.

Israel has destroyed hospitals saying there are tunnels built by Hamas, when there literally hasn’t been proof of that, doctors have been killed, there is very little medical equipment. And somehow if only Hamas stopped the rockets, Israel would stop trying to attempt genocide?

If someone was to take over your home and land, do you not think that some people might actually resist? The problem is, what sort of resistance is proportionate to Israel’s billions of dollars of funding. There clearly have been deplorable actions committed by both sides, but which side has the actual power and control?

Palestinians are living in what used to be their country, as second class citizens, are subject to checkpoints to keep Israelis safe, they aren’t free to move around in their own country peacefully. They’re attacked when they are praying peacefully, in their homes etc. But sure, if only Hamas stopped the rockets from Gaza then maybe the Israeli government might decide to give building materials. Or the Israeli government could also choose to destroy olive trees, take over farmland, bulldoze homes to create settler communities, try not destroy the West Bank, provide food, remove checkpoints, stop birthright trips etc. etc. but it won’t do that would it? And is it all the fault of Hamas?

@ExitPersuedByAMemory I find your constant defence of Hamas extremely disturbing.

This is a very muddled post - there is clear unambiguous evidence of tunnels in gaza and tunnels under hospitals, as reported in all reputable medisa. If you can't accept this then its hard to take anything you say seriously at all and its hard to avoid the conclusion that you are defending Hamas.

@SharonEllis Jewish refugees were welcomed in Palestine before 1948. Unfortunately, declaring independence and changing the name from Palestine to Israel has created in itself this “constant existential threat”. I’m not sure why the aftermath of October 7th showed how essential US support is? When it’s been clear that the Israeli government and the IDF has behaved disproportionately. It seems as though the IDF has killed its own civilians caught in the crossfires so it looks like they can’t be adept in finding Hamas if they kill Israelis? But yet can target a route using drones and essentially murder the WCK members and yet there hasn’t been any justification for this. Is it because Hamas could not be blamed?

When have I defended Hamas @SpunkyCritic? Or are you equating my defence of innocent Palestinians as supporting Hamas?

You really need to read more about the history, if you want to understand anything. And not just social media and books written by terrorist apologists. (Hint: sensationalist titles such as "a history of settler colonial conquest and resistance" are an indicator that the book will be rather inventive one-sided)

@SharonEllis Please stop trying to make me seem to support Hamas when I have done no such thing. Are you talking about the bunkers created by Israel? I accepted that there are tunnels, but are there tunnels in hospitals? I haven’t read anything about that in the article I believe you shared. Do you not accept that bombing hospitals is a war crime?

Of course, if you just want to spout sensationalist tropes, no need to get informed.

"changing the name from Palestine to Israel"
O.M.G.

@statsfun Please recommend books that are not one sided. I’m not sure where you’ve gotten the notion that I’ve only read books written by terrorist apologists and social media . And who you do you consider “terrorist apologists”, is there a criteria behind it?

@statsfun How is it a sensationalist trope? Was it not called Palestine before it was called Israel? Have names of countries and places never been changed? Or is that too a sensationalist trope?

Not necrssarily. Read up on intrrnational law. Hospitals lose protection if they are used for military purposes essentially. There is absolute evidence of a tunnel under Al Shifa.

Oh not this again. How many times does it need to be said that a tunnel in itself (or a water shaft in this case) is not proof of it being used by Hamas. It also does not give Israel the right to bomb it.

Sharon, you have been on these threads for awhile so I'm sure you already know all of this as it has been discussed countless times.

There was reportedly a bunker under al shifa that Israel built. However, they didn't think to mention this at any point and were extremely angry when the ex Israeli PM disclosed in an interview that it was actually built by Israel during the time they were occupying Gaza. But once again there was no evidence of it being used by Hamas.