Hamas and Gaza celebrates

[LetThereBeLove]

Hillel Nueur, International human rights lawyer, writer, Executive Director of United Nations Watch writes: 'Never before in history has a side claimed that they suffered a genocide and at the same time that they won the war they had started.'

If you read only a handful of messages on social media today and watch the news, people in Gaza are celebrating and Hamas state they will continue (their barbarity) until Israel is eradicated. I won't repost these as anyone can find them easily.

The original Likud charter did not support a Palestinian state.

« between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.«

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/original-party-platform-of-the-likud-party

They also have not really changed their tune since.

https://theconversation.com/israels-policy-on-statehood-merits-the-same-scrutiny-as-hamas-gets-33897

So the man who has been voted in to lead Israel for nearly 20 years has been as supportive of a 2SS as Hamas?

@NoisyBear both their behaviour is disgusting.

You said on your post it was in the Charter.

Did I? @argyllherewecome

@Polka83 Good point. I've never heard anyone who insists it's only Palestinians who reject 2 states acknowledge the Likud Charter. Very odd.

The Likud charter is only that of the political party not of Israel as a whole. Netanyahu is PM of a coalition government. The Far Right parties do not believe in a two state solution. Other members of the government do.

@stormy4319trevor
It is odd. Maybe because the narrative has always been more in the control of those who have power.
Social media has really opened our eyes to
what is happening and made us curious to find out more, read more and not just accept what we were expected to believe.

Just like the Hamas charter does not represent what all the Palestinians believe- yet there are no innocent Palestinians according to some Israelis? Not even those young Palestinian adults and children who were not old enough to vote in the last elections but have been killed by the Israeli army?

I am sure the Likud party does not represent all voters - but Israelis have become increasingly right wing. The young adults more so- which is interesting in itself. Apparently the left have been in free fall for the last 30 years.

This article suggests the left wing parties had 7% of the votes in Israel at the last election?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/the-israeli-left-has-lost-more-than-an-election/amp/

@Polka83 Yes, I suppose people wouldn't have necessarily known Likud's and Netanyahu's policies before the internet. But it's easy to read the charter, so strange people genuinely still think it's only Palestinians who might reject a 2 state solution.
@LetThereBeLove Out of interest, which members of Netanyahu's government do believe in a 2 state solution?

This.

I'm disgusted too. Yet the people still cheer them on. They do look well fed, clean and tidy in their uniforms of hatred. Now there is a ceasefire they are no longer pretending to be civilians hiding behind women and children.

Many posters left these threads due to inability to see hamas for what they are and hatred of the west. Constant excuses for them. They will keep on with their aim to eradicate Israel. Their hatred of Israel tops their love of their own people.

This.

Sadly with hamas still.in charge its just a matter of time before the conflict restarts.

I would say that there is 2 of them in it. A quote from Israeli minister Smotrich, not exactly the words of a man who wants peace,
"it is ruined and disintegrated, uninhabitable, and it will remain that way. Don't be impressed by the forced joy of our enemy. This is an animalistic society that sanctifies death. Very soon, we will erase their smile again and replace it with cries of grief and the wails of those who were left with nothing."

@Polka83 I don't know how you can talk about Palestinians being radicalised in view of what has happened there and not think the same might apply to Israelis.

If you had been bombarded with rockets, been told your neighbour wants to murder you, seen it in action repeatedly and watched 1000+ people murdered in kibbutzim (that are normally left wing) you may feel some what more less likely to sit down and negotiate a two state solution. Less likely to think your neighbour wants a peaceful existence. Especially whilst backed up by their also quite violent mates in the surrounding countries.

It's hardly rocket science is it. The expectations of the Palestinians and their agency is so far apart from what is expected of the Israelis.

@NoisyBear and?

Smotrich and Ben Gvir are far right. Known for their rhetoric. They are also tolerated for their usefulness in a coalition government. They are not well regarded generally.

So we have worked out that both sides say deplorable things about each other. How many times has Smotrich been into Gaza and murdered people though? Taken hostages Back into Israel and held them against their will? He is a self promoter who riles up his followers. I know a few politicians in this country who do that. Against a target.

They can also be removed and resigned. Which they threaten to do and do all the time. Is that the same for Hamas. Are they there with the will of the people?

Because Israel has completely ignored International Law which also makes them terrorists

I think that it is important to acknowledge that both sides in this have their unsavoury elements who relish misery. I think that saying 'And?' to such a disgusting quote from an elected government minister is part of the problem, he needs to be held to account and if he isn't representing the will of the people then why is he there? Like you say Israelis could get rid of him if they wish.

I think as a member of government he sends others to do his murdering for him. He sends others to take people back to torture camps and hold them against their will. The IDF are hardly acting without instruction from the elected government. Like I said there are 2 of them in it.

The expectations of the Palestinians are entirely reasonable. Please can the Israelis stop taking their land, locking their children up for throwing stones (at least don’t needlessly kill them) as, holding them in prison without trial, apply rights and laws to them equally, share ground water fairly, see what settlements can be given back to them etc
Please can the IDF stop using brutal force that kills disproportionate numbers of Palestinians? Apparently the IDF call it mowing the grass?

https://www.pressenza.com/2022/08/mowing-the-grass-in-gaza/

Interesting to see inference of Israelis being radicalised. As another poster has said - that leads to terrorism.

They have been enabled by a whole government. Can’t see any moves to remove them?

Members of the Knesset don’t personally need to go into Gaza to kill Palestinians. Have the events in Gaza for over the last 12 months not shown you that? They can even allow it in the West Bank.

Are you struggling with the scale of destruction in Gaza?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czx8de2k4epo

@stomachamelon are you really saying and? For the finance minister 's genocidal comments ? He is not a random dude and he doesn't have to go himself to gaza he sends 19 year olds to do the job for him
You guys are completely delusional !
I hope the ICJ does their job and sends these monstrous people where they belong ! Behind bars !

So, Smotrich hasn't gone and killed anyone himself. You think the actions and policies of the two (Ben Gvir and Smotrich) hasn't allowed and encouraged Israelis to kill and attack Palestinians and their property?

Not only this but they really couldn't care less about the hostages. Their hatred for Palestinians trumps anything else. They also control Netanyahu who is more concerned in staying in power. What a lovely government for the only democracy in the ME!

Some of you seem to have missed that Ben Gvir has resigned. More moderate politicians are supporting the deal to make sure it works & the government holds. Seems positive to me. Israel suffers from a PR system which exaggerates the power of smaller less representative parties, which is a big problem in Israel but their power is not invincible and we know there is a strong mood in Israel for the deal to work.

How is Hamas managing the political process Internally?

How do you see governance evolving and what do you think will happen with Hamas?

I didn't miss it but he isn't the only one in the government who is an extremist or has been convicted for serious crimes.
https://www.jta.org/2022/12/21/israel/whos-who-in-israels-new-far-right-government-and-why-it-matters
How is Hamas managing the political process Internally?
Well, there are a terrorist organisation so comparing them to the only democracy in the ME tells you everything you need to know.