Last functioning hospital in Northern Gaza is stormed by the IDF

[Whatsinanamehey]

If it wasn't already clear that Israel is carrying out ethnic cleansing in the north of Gaza, then this is the final straw.

IDF soldiers have posted countless videos mocking at the destruction they have caused in the north. The north of Gaza has suffered massacre after massacre at the hands of Israel and after repeatedly targeting the Kamal Adwan hospital, they have now forced them to evacuate after bombing and killing several medics.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx26v70n5z4o.amp

So what is your stance now - israel is preventing children access to life saving medical treatments or they’re not allowing adults who may pose a security threat to go with them?

Do you believe women are not involved in terrorism just they are women despite women being clearly pictured taking part in Oct 7th and involved in holding hostages? Not saying this mother is involved in terrorism btw but we don’t have access to Israel’s military risk assessment policy.

Your outrage should be towards Hamas and the other terrorist factions in Gaza hiding in hospitals, and masquerading as patients and staff, as if they hadn’t hospitals wouldn’t be a legitimate military target in a war.

Please suggest a better way to get hundreds of terrorists out of a hospital they are holed up in.

A call to surrender and come out quietly? Leave them to it and hope they come out later?

I’m sure the IDF would love to hear it and would have preferred a better way. Unless you buy into the idea that all IDF soldiers, mainly Jewish of course, are evil monsters who just want to gleefully murder innocent Palestinians including children and babies while the world watches them do it. and can sit with their families at dinner afterwards without a care in the world.

Not a projection of what Hamas did, oh no.

Let the child get out with his mother. She would be leaving Gaza, her country, and not entering Israel.

There are thousands upon thousands of dead and wounded Palestinians in Gaza, but it seems that all you can see is the hospitals of flattened Gaza teeming with alive, unwounded, active terrorists threatening Israel with shattering might even after 15 months of the U.S.- military arsenal-backed IDF attacking them night and day with everything they’ve got.

I cannot see why you would believe this mother with a sick, young child is another terrorist in disguise, this time trying to get out of Gaza. What do you think she could do that will harm Israel, seeing as she will not be going to Israel and isn’t even there now?

I don’t know @GymBuffMum
I certainly don’t think all IDF soldiers are evil monsters. Im not impressed by the hyperbole of some posters . I imagine they’re no better or worse than any other army. It’s the instructions they are given that’s the problem.
My difficulty is that this war has destroyed the lives of thousands of innocent civilians, has completely destroyed the infrastructure of Gaza and has left Gazan families without the basic requirements for survival ( food, secure shelter, access to medical aid)
And yet apparently there are still hundreds of Hamas operatives running around.
That suggests to me that the war has not been conducted very effectively.
Im no expert on military strategy but was there really no alternative?
I’m not anti Israeli and understand how vulnerable Israel feels surrounded by terrorists but I can’t agree with Netanyahu’s approach .

Are we really at the point where we have to say 'not all members of the IDF are like this'? If members of the IDF themselves are coming out and saying that awful things are happening, that numbers of terrorists killed are being lied about, that they have competitions in 'kill zones' where they kill everyone that they see, that human life holds no value to them then I don't see why we shouldn't believe them and why we shouldn't talk about it?

"One time, guards spotted someone approaching from the south. We responded as if it was a large militant raid. We took positions and just opened fire. I'm talking about dozens of bullets, maybe more. For about a minute or two, we just kept shooting at the body. People around me were shooting and laughing."
But the incident didn't end there. "We approached the blood-covered body, photographed it, and took the phone. He was just a boy, maybe 16." An intelligence officer collected the items, and hours later, the fighters learned the boy wasn't a Hamas operative – but just a civilian.

This sounds pretty gleeful to me and he was 'just a boy'. Somebodies son, killed in cold blood by laughing men with guns. You can't expect people to ignore this. I don't think the soldiers telling us about this want us to ignore it either.

@BadgerInDungarees once again it's not all on Israel and the IDF though is it?
Why are they there?
What would stop this progressing?
Israel will go if the hostages are released and Hamas lay down their arms.
Where are your impassioned pleas and hyperbolic statements about them and the position they have put the people they govern under.
No collective handwringing for the countries bordering Gaza who steadfastly refuse to let them in? Egypt? Jordan- where over 50% of the population are Palestinian? And in this climate it's not out of fear of Israel and ramifications is it?
The responsibility is far bigger than Israel.

@OpheliaWasntMad I agree with that. Name me an army where you don't have those that should be no where near serving.
British army during the troubles. More recently the treatment of women in Kenya etc.
American army in Afghanistan?
I don't remember the long threads on that.
Russian and Ukrainian armies haven't covered themselves in glory.
Let alone that how many hostages are serving members of the IDF and how they were treated on camera?

It's ridiculous.

Gaza is surrounded by Israel. There is no border with Egypt any more. From the start of the war, Israel controlled the Rafah crossing from Gaza to Egypt. When they stormed Rafah, Israel closed it down and widened the Philadelphia corridor (violating their treaty with Egypt). Gaza has no neighbour or occupier other than Israel.

Millions if we count the ones since the Nakba.

Right but what members of the IDF are reporting is happening is appalling right? Nothing you say changes that. I can't get on board with being more offended that people are talking about what is happening than what is actually happening. Why do you think these members of the IDF are coming out and telling us what is happening? So we can ignore it?

And on a thread where just a few posts ago people were talking about how Israel won't let a mum go with her child for treatment abroad I don't know why you are talking about other countries not letting people in like it as simple as that. Why aren't Israel letting people out?

I think you will find I posted the article about the children going for treatment in the UEA on the other thread.

I don't think it's black and white. It is absolutely appalling and things should change. I read an article in an Israeli newspaper today that says as much as carries some clout. People do care.

I am not offended by what you are talking about- the truth will out one way or another. I just don't believe it's all a one way street for many reasons. So what I can't get onboard with is that..... anninability see what is going on beyond the misinformation, propaganda and thinly veiled Islamophobia and antisemitism on all sides .

She was referring to user243245346 who lied that Kamal Adwan hospital was a military field hospital headed by a Hamas colonel.

Suprised you couldn’t connect the dots. All you have to do is use the quote history link.

Yes and at least one of those children couldn't travel with their mum because Israel wouldn't let her out. Do you think you can just rock up to the border and leave? Everyone of those children had to get Israels permission and everyone of their escorts had to get Israels permission. It's been this way for years under Israels occupation.

Who apart from you is saying that it is a one way street? Again all of these made up rules. If we want to talk about something Israel has done wrong we have to talk about everything else everyone else has done wrong or be accused of being antisemtic? There is no misinformation in my posts. I don't spread misinformation. Just because you don't like what people are saying it doesn't make it propaganda or misinformation.

People who repeat Israeli propaganda, as in the poster LoremIpsumCici was responding to. It is so obvious it is straight out of a propaganda handbook, I'm not sure if they genuinely believe it or just repeat it ad nauseum because you often see the same things over and over on various different comment platforms.

@dulra see when you make less than intelligent comments Like that I can see why others find it hard to take you seriously.
Nice personal attack there, who are these others you speak of?

I’m sure there are bad apples in the IDF as with any army. There are also probably young people fighting, (age 18-24), heavily traumatised and in fear for their lives, who do things they wouldn’t do if they weren’t, the same as any other army. The posters on here saying the IDF are all evil terrorists enjoying killing Palestinians are spreading hate propaganda.

What do you think their instructions are btw?

Name another war where enemy combatants have no uniform to differentiate themselves from civilians, where civilian areas and buildings are deliberately used as bases and rocket launches, civilian homes booby trapped, aid is stolen by a government to deliberately starve their own people, where absolutely no places of safety were provided to civilians when their government intentionally declared war on another country knowing full well they’d come after them by carrying atrocities they filmed and that no other country would ignore, where babies and children are taken hostage (for 15 months now for the Bilbas children) and other civilian hostages were held in civilian homes?

There are accounts of bombs being strapped to the underbellies of sheep, donkeys and dogs FFS.

How on earth can you conduct an effective war in those circumstances? Despite this, there are reports by military strategists that this war has the lowest civilian to combatant death ratio in the history of urban warfare.

No one is arguing that any amount of civilian casualties is acceptable. It is a sad fact of war.

If Gaza hadn’t been filled with underground tunnels for terrorist purposes, there wouldn’t have had to be so much bombing to fill them in.

mwi.westpoint.edu/underground-nightmare-hamas-tunnels-and-the-wicked-problem-facing-the-idf/

@BadgerInDungarees I must have missed the posts where you talked about Hama's role in what's going on and the fact the constant attacks by them on Conveys etc make movement difficult. That inspite of the last months they continue to fire into Israel from Gaza.

You don't have to talk about everything and as far as I am concerned the antisemitism ship has sailed but you have to provide context. Or readers could be misinformed or think your knowledge of the Middle East doesn't have a balanced understanding.

And btw those posting sources from Haaretz do you consider this news source, with 4% of Israel readership, unbiased?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/haaretz-in-government-crosshairs-after-publisher-calls-terrorists-freedom-fighters/amp/

Has this been disproven then?

I accept that conducting a war against terrorists who embed themselves inside a civilian population is very difficult.
I’ve never demonised IDF soldiers as I’m sure they contain the usual mix of good and bad etc.
Im sure there are as many bad apples in most armies ( but for the Palestinians one bad apple with a gun pointed at their family is one too many)

What do you think their instructions are btw?

I imagine their instructions are to bomb / evacuate areas where Hamas are hiding. Since that’s pretty much everywhere it makes life impossible for ordinary Palestinians.
Yes - I know Hamas are to blame and they deliberately started this conflict. But that’s not the fault of the Palestinian children who it appears are suffering far more than the people who caused the war .

Apart from humanitarian considerations- I just can’t see that Netanyahu’s approach is successful . The hostages have not been released/ the war is ongoing/ Gaza is destroyed/ Netanyahu’s government have brought Israel into disrepute
I don’t think there are any easy answers or solutions but there must be a better way than Netanyahu’s approach ?
edited to add - I’m not as knowledgeable as many other posters . But I’m fairly objective and I’m not anti Israeli .

And I must have missed your posts where you talk about the Israeli occupation, talk about all of the people they hold in administrative detention without trial or a fair trial, talk about the children who have been physically and sexually abused in detention, talk about Israels apartheid, where you talk about the 100s of people Israel killed in the year before Oct 7 2023, where you talk about the mass graves in Gaza or the babies freezing to death or the Israelis trashing aid convoys. You haven't even acknowledged that Israel have stopped a mum travelling with her severely injured child or that Israel controls who leaves Gaza. Does that make you misinformed without a balanced understanding? Don't come at me like you are some kind of balanced poster here who sees and acknowledges the damage done by everyone involved in this.

Oh look, but it hasn’t been reported than any Gazan has taken up the offer.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/11/20/netanyahu-offers-5m-in-exchange-for-any-gaza-hostage/

What other approach was there - allow Hamas free access to Israel and Egypt (fair is fair surely?) by tearing down the border walls of their ‘open air prison’, or even creating a single state where Hamas was free to murder Jewish people as much as they want, releasing 000’s of Palestinian criminals (many convicted of terrorism) in return for the hostages (many of whom will be already dead or executed before release), and letting Hamas remain in power emboldened by their win to do a lot worse than Oct 7th. That seems to be what a lot of people want.

If you don’t think Hamas should remain in power, how exactly were Israel supposed to get rid of them? Maybe the UN could give it a go?

I agree that I haven’t any solutions to offer. And there aren’t any easy answers. But we’ve had over a year of this approach and I can’t see what has been achieved.