The brutal truth of the war in Gaza.

[Whatsinanamehey]

"To find safety from Gaza, you need first to become the victim of a catastrophic injury and then be lucky enough to be identified, selected and extracted.
That's one of the many brutal truths from this long war."

This article is certainly an eye opening read on the failures of those governments who support Israel in their campaign of cruelty. It's very rare for Israel to allow even injured children with multiple limb amputations, to leave Gaza for treatment. I have read previously that despite all the difficult work to organise an evacuation.. in the last minute Israel will just refuse it with no explanation given.

It isn't enough that they torture and murder health care staff, they bomb hospitals, the routinely block medical aid, they constantly bomb residential blocks and safe zones. After all of that only a select few are given permission to leave this living nightmare.

https://news.sky.com/story/how-the-lives-of-the-few-child-amputees-allowed-to-leave-gaza-are-being-rebuilt-elsewhere-13278543

The fact that this thread has started off with a mutilated child and then descended into the usual finger pointing and boring trawl through the history of this region is so depressing. Israel's government disgusts me, Hamas disgusts me. The fact that people are incapable of seeing through everything and see the real and unacceptable human suffering that is being inflicted on people is beyond me.

Mohammed Abdel-Raouf Arafat As Qudwa al-Hussaeini was born on 24 August 1929 in Cairo**, his father a textile merchant who was a Palestinian with some Egyptian ancestry, his mother from an old Palestinian family in Jerusalem.

Now if you are going to dismiss Arafat as Palestinian for being born in Egypt, do you know where netanhayu was born?

Tel Aviv, Israel.

True. It’s his father who was polish. I had read Benjamin was polish but must have been his family’s origin

Netanhayu was born in Israel so I'm not sure what your point is.

There has never been a state of Palestine. @Fordian is completely correct. Arafat basically created the term of modern day 'Palestinians' from those in what was Greater Syria (a handful of other modern countries). Before about 1977 no one claimed to be Palestinian.

If Palestine never existed, why were coins minted, baring the name Palestine?
https://academic.oup.com/book/40318/chapter-abstract/346875488?redirectedFrom=fulltext

This erasure of Palestine and Palestinians is disgusting.

But you know very well that does not diminish his father's identification with the state of Israel, as a Jewish person.

Agreed.

Just to remind people.

Maybe take a look at the children recovering from having their limbs torn off in explosions... Maybe think about how you would want your own children to be treated in such circumstances. Because these are children just like our children, who did not vote for or support or work for Hamas. The international rules of war, international humanitarian law is intended to minimise the numbers of children and other innocents who become casualties through no fault of their own. These rules are being ignored and children are suffering, because people choose to allow them to suffer.

That was the point the poster was trying to make. It doesn't, and Arafat being born in Egypt does not diminish his identification with Palestine

These rules are being ignored and children are suffering, because people choose to allow them to suffer.
Agree with this, it's a choice

Palestine was a region encompassing a couple of countries. There were Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Arabs.
The concept of Palestine as a separate state or country did not exist until fairly recently.
This is not erasure. This is history.

The lack of knowledge of people spouting pro-Palestinian anti-Israeli and yet not really knowing anything about it shows the power of Hamas propoganda. Millions well spent.

No, I haven't suggested that and I don't appreciate you putting words in my mouth.

Its very clear that was not what you were saying.

Sounds a lot like erasure in the context of the current genocide. Maybe you didn't realise that this kind of talk can sound extremely sinister in the current context so I'm just letting you know.

I think the argument of whether "Palestine" was a place or not is a spurious one. The inhabitants had lived there, often for centuries or generations, tended the land and had historic ties to the area. The fact that the borders were often in flux due to geopolitical factors well outside their control doesn't diminish their ties. They didn't "wander in" - they were long-established communities who had made it their home for generations.

@SharonEllis what are you suggesting their perceived lack of historic identity means for their future? Does it mean you think they have no right to a state? That they can be moved to other neighbouring countries with impunity? That they've lost their right to any of that land in response to a holocaust not of their making? Or that Gaza and the West Bank should just be absorbed into Israel where they live as second-class citizens? What would you like to see happen to them?

What then was the point of your post? It's not clear what you were getting at. You made the point that Israel needed to be created as homeland for Jewish people which is clear and very much understood but I'm more unclear what the relevance of Arafat being born in Egypt is?

The lack of knowledge of people spouting pro-Palestinian anti-Israeli and yet not really knowing anything about it shows the power of Hamas propoganda. Millions well spent.
I don't need a history lesson to recognise the "brutal truth of the war in Gaza". People aren't anti Israel btw.

Palestine was a region encompassing a couple of countries. There were Palestinian Jews and Palestinian Arabs.
The concept of Palestine as a separate state or country did not exist until fairly recently.
This is not erasure. This is history.
Firstly, I never said it was a country/state. Secondly, archaeological evidence has shown that this land was inhabited as far back as the Bronze Age. As a region. Palestine has exited for millennia.
https://www.ourhistory.org.uk/the-history-of-palestine/
https://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greece/judaea/gaza/t.html

The lack of knowledge of people spouting pro-Palestinian anti-Israeli and yet not really knowing anything about it shows the power of Hamas propoganda. Millions well spent.
The total omission of a huge chunk of the history of Palestine and then the assumption that if you are in favour of a Palestinian (which I am) state, you must be anti Israel shows the power of the Hasbara. After all. the Israeli government has invested enormous amount of money in their propaganda machine.
By the way, what is Hamas propaganda?

I haven't put words in your mouth. I asked a question. Many times, when people talk about rights to live in Judea and Samaria, they are talking about the West Bank and saying that Israel has a greater right to it, in their opinion, than the Palestinians currently living there (under occupation). This is a commonly encountered viewpoint, sadly. Glad to hear you don't share it with those people.

Why is this directed at me? How many times do I have to say I believe in a 2 state solution which by definition means a Palestinian state?

Absolutely, great book with references and evidence, here:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Palestine-Four-Thousand-Year-History/dp/1786992728

Let's thank the people who over the last 15 months kept saying that there is no such this as a Country called Palestine or Palestinians. They've spurred millions of ordinary people around the World to educate themselves on evidenced history. Countering that propaganda has elevated the Palestinian cause 100 fold. Kind of like an own goal......

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Palestine-Four-Thousand-Year-History/dp/1786992728

So why does the lack of palestinian "history" matter so much?