The brutal truth of the war in Gaza.

[Whatsinanamehey]

"To find safety from Gaza, you need first to become the victim of a catastrophic injury and then be lucky enough to be identified, selected and extracted.
That's one of the many brutal truths from this long war."

This article is certainly an eye opening read on the failures of those governments who support Israel in their campaign of cruelty. It's very rare for Israel to allow even injured children with multiple limb amputations, to leave Gaza for treatment. I have read previously that despite all the difficult work to organise an evacuation.. in the last minute Israel will just refuse it with no explanation given.

It isn't enough that they torture and murder health care staff, they bomb hospitals, the routinely block medical aid, they constantly bomb residential blocks and safe zones. After all of that only a select few are given permission to leave this living nightmare.

https://news.sky.com/story/how-the-lives-of-the-few-child-amputees-allowed-to-leave-gaza-are-being-rebuilt-elsewhere-13278543

💔

This ^^ . I refuse to listen to any condemnation of Israel that does not acknowledge all this would not be happening if it weren't for the murderous barbarity of Oct 7th.

Hamas could stop this tomorrow but choose not to.

It's naive in the extreme to believe that handing back the hostages would end this.

Hamas still launch untargeted rockets into Israel and they still hold hostages taken on 7th Oct 23.

Very true. Many ignore these facts though it's easier to just blame.e Israel for everything. Commendable that you persevere.

Maybe so. There is absolutely nothing to lose in trying it though. And yet it barely features in the calls for a ceasefire.

Absolutely.

Surely worth a go? 🤔

If Hamas handed over the hostages and stopped firing rockets at Israel, that would be a huge start. Dismantle Hamas and I believe Israel would come under immense international pressure from its allies to halt its war in Gaza.

And yet it barely features in the calls for a ceasefire
??? It is one of the main elements of negotiating the ceasefire. Don't think anyone thinks a ceasefire will happen without it.

It did seem to be working at the end of 2023 when a lot of hostages were released. It's a shame they stopped those agreements. It's been the only successful way that hostages have been returned in any great number.

I don't think the hostages being returned would change anything for Gazans because the assault on Gaza isn't about them but you're entitled to your opinion.

Yes Hamas need to hand back the hostages. I don't think anyone would disagree with that, people are just not necessarily convinced it would bring a ceasefire.

Show me all the footage you have of the posters and chants at all the pro-Palestinian/anti-Israeli demos where calls for a ceasefire are accompanied by calls for the release of the hostages and call specifically for Hamas as well as Israel to cease fire.

Well clearly I can't do that but for the majority of sensible people they will understand that a ceasefire cannot be one sided and will include the release of hostages. So calling for a ceasefire covers both sides.

Not sure why you've brought up the marches I wasn't aware you were specifically talking about them.

You know full well that calling for a ceasefire does not automatically assume both sides when so many of the calls are explicitly aimed at Israel and not Hamas. Those calls also don't automatically include the hostages unless people say so.

I brought up the marches because thats the most regular popular forum for calls for a ceasefire. There's also lots of social media, which tends to be equally one sided.

I do agree though, that the way the marches are conducted does suggest that 'sensible people' (your words, not mine) aren't very prevalent because as you have yourself admitted you'll be hard pushed to find widespread and vocal calls for Hamas to cease firing rockets and sending terrorists into Israel , or calls for the release of the hostages on the marches.

It seems like Israel really wants to take the crown of most evil country to have existed from The British Empire, why is the international community allowing this to continue?

But this argument is just as one-sided. It suggests Israel has no autonomy or ability to fight Hamas and protect itself in a way that doesn't ride roughshod over international humanitarian and criminal law. It has been given billions to spend on defense and weapons and its intelligence service is both envied and feared throughout the world. Yet the number of civilians killed just keeps rising, the conflict drags on, atrocities keep being committed in both Gaza and the West Bank and Netanyahu manages to hang onto power. How can anyone see this as a possible path for long-term peace?

And yes, Hamas should release the hostages, but this will not stop the war. Netanyahu has formally stated this many times so why don't you believe him?

You know full well that calling for a ceasefire does not automatically assume both sides when so many of the calls are explicitly aimed at Israel and not Hamas.
I don't share this opinion at all so don't tell me what I do and don't know. As someone who was around during the northern Ireland peace process I very much understand what a ceasefire means and how and why it is negotiated by both sides. Maybe I'm naive to assume this is a given for most people

Those calls also don't automatically include the hostages unless people say so.
In your view. The majority of people who want an end to civilian suffering in Gaza want the same for the hostages what kind of people do you think we are? I'm using the royal we here as in normal rational people that are calling for a ceasefire, not the minority extremists that support Hamas

I brought up the marches because thats the most regular popular forum for calls for a ceasefire.
The posts previous to yours, I viewed as referring to poster on these threads

You see this sort of statement is so ridiculous it beggars belief. From the premise that there is some sort of competition to be 'the most evil country' to the complete lack of research and understanding of the things that have gone on in the world over the last 80 years. Jaw dropping.

Because international in internal pressure would be far, far greater. Of course he's going to say that. Doesnt mean its reality.

I go with the saying 'when people tell you who they are, believe them'.

When people endlessly demand that Israel calls a ceasefire, but do not call for the release of the hostages and dismiss any suggestion that Hamas bears any responsibility (or suddenly lose their voice on that bit) I believe them.

Its laughable to suggest otherwise. Noone can be that naive after 15 months of this.

'When people tell you who they are, believe them'. The Israeli government and IDF have told the world and shown the world, but people still choose to pretend otherwise and defend their actions.

You do you. Once again what kind of people do you think we are that we would not want the safe release of hostages? Personally I feel your distorted view of most people wanting an end to the suffering in Gaza is laughable

My posts were based on evidence. I asked you to show me evidence of calls for a 2-sided ceasefire that acknowledge Hamas's share of responsibility for this war and call for the release of hostages on the pro-Palestinian marches & protests. You couldn't provide the evidence because Its very, very rare. Thinking the safe return of the hostages would be a nice thing is not the same as putting them vocally at the centre of the picture.

So you're not going to answer my question fair enough. Not sure why you are asking me for evidence that most people calling for a ceasefire also want hostages released. for me it is the majority view. You brought up the marches no one prior to that was talking about the marches so no idea why you are fixated on that.

My posts were based on evidence
Were they? Evidence of what? You are basing your view, it seems on a minority opinion at the marches, not on what the majority of people who want an end to civilian suffering want.

You can have no idea about this. However, if by some chance you do have a deep insight into Netanyahu's deepest thoughts and policies maybe you can tell us what else he's lying about?