Christmas in Bethlehem

[Auvergne63]

Another muted celebration in Bethlehem, Christ's birthplace for over 2 billions Christians.
https://international.la-croix.com/religion/in-bethlehem-a-christmas-marked-by-exhaustion-and-anxiety
The economic consequences of the "war" on this holy place are also staggering.
https://apnews.com/article/christmas-israel-palestinians-bethlehem-jesus-gaza-war-b508f651811c710e6d2f1994a3dcf131

If I was at your Mass I would definitely have asked him.
Good for you

But maybe where you are everyone thinks the same
Thinks the same as what?

The killing of children is obviously abhorrent. Whether they are little Israeli child hostages or little Palestinian victims of bombing. They are all innocent and should demand our compassion and sadness.

According to Gideon Levy, "Here's some good news coming straight from the killing fields: The Israel Defense Forces has built a holiday village on the Gaza coast. Sgt. Yaron Rabinovich ate some churritos and steak there earlier this week. " Bear in mind this is in a place where babies have frozen to death, the population is starving and health care has been destroyed. Full article in Haaretz, Dec26th 2024

Thinks the same as @Lalaloveya
( as in - let’s just focus on one set of victims and ignore the hostages )

My parents were from Ireland. No one questioned the priests back in the day . I’d like to think things have moved on .

You're projecting now that is not what they said or implied. I also doubt any priest would think that way. You need to stop twisting things

What Pope Francis said ‘yesterday children were bombed, this is not war, it is cruelty’. Just to show the catholic perspective. It is clear the Pope sees this as a genocide.

No.
It’s absolutely not on to use the privilege of the pulpit to only express concern for the victims of one side.
And yes I know the Russian Orthodox Church does this …
But a church that is independent of politics should express concern for the innocent victims in both sides.

Of course you’ll not understand this this - I wouldn’t expect you to.

The “Catholic perspective “ is that ALL children in this conflict are innocent victims

No, as I said, he just stuck to the genocide today.

www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/pope-francis-meets-family-members-of-hostages-prays-for-their-release/

Fair play to you. I think the genocide of a people can be lamented without having to both sides it every single time.

I think in this context both sides absolutely do have to be mentioned in a homily
If a priest only mentions the victims of one side we all know how that can come across…
And how difficult it might be to be a Jewish family living in that locality

The two aren't comparable for many people. Both are heinous but clearly the genocide in Gaza is on a different level.

The two aren't comparable for many people. Both are heinous but clearly the genocide in Gaza is on a different level.

Innocent victims aren’t comparable?
Come on now ?

Well of course all children are innocent, but he is absolutely right this is cruelty not war. The Pope has of course shown sympathy for the hostages, but it is Palestinian children who have been cruelly killed in their thousands with no end in sight. He said this because it touches his heart, like it does for all of us on this thread opposed to this slaughter.

Of course you’ll not understand this this - I wouldn’t expect you to.
What? Why are you resorting to personal insults?

No.
It’s absolutely not on to use the privilege of the pulpit to only express concern for the victims of one side
Have you a transcript of every sermon this priest has given since Oct 2023? I'm assuming you don't so you have no idea if or how many times he has expressed concern for the hostages. You have decided he hasn't so you are projecting and twisting things to fit your argument and discredit this priest.

Oh @Dulra ..
It’s obvious that you have a very one sided approach - which is why I would not expect you to understand my points.

Im not trying to discredit a priest . That’s a completely ridiculous accusation as no one knows who “ this priest” is.
I am discrediting the idea that a homily in Mass can be used to ask for support and prayers for only one group of victims in a conflict.

Ah, the 'typical response' to the 'typical response' when someone points out the FACT that Jews and Israel are negatively spoken about more than any other country or conflict, probably in history of civilisation. This includes all conflicts, atrocities, apartheids (of women being a huge one) that are going on right this minute?!
No marching and protests, or thousands of comments, which include blatant antisemitism, on social media. We as Jews do wonder why that is? Can you tell me?

And Why would I listen to the decrepit representative of a corrupt organisation that shelters pedophiles?
The Catholic Church hasn't exactly got a great history when it comes to helping Jews. Sure you know this, but if not, they were pretty cozy with the Nazis. Check out the Reichskonkordat treaty or the Pope of tbe days' virtual endorsement of the systematic murder of millions of Jews. Nice.

The Catholic Church has made many mistakes but I’m not accepting this slander .
Of course there were horrendously anti semitic Catholics ( I’m ashamed to say )
But there has also been examples of great Catholic heroism during WW2
Im sure you will agree that Jewish people are an equally unpredictable mixture of good and bad as are Catholics ( and Palestinians)

Oh @Du@Dulra
It’s obvious that you have a very one sided approach - which is why I would not expect you to understand my points
I think you are the one with a very one sided approach and you are not understanding my points. A priest is perfectly entitled to talk about who or what he wants in a homily and for all you know he spoke about the hostages at a different one, you haven't even heard the homily or know the priest but have decided to judge them regardless.

I suspect you are a name change and I'm pretty sure who.

Tens of thousands being slaughtered, starved, their homes destroyed, hospitals, schools and mosques destroyed. Everything destroyed. The complete and total destruction of Northern Gaza and the heinous murder of God only knows how many people, but thousands and thousands of women and children included.

It's not the same as the hostages, no.

Obviously both include innocent victims, but the situations and the scale are very obviously different.

If a priest wants to mention the destruction of Northern Gaza and the deliberate destruction of all of its health services in a deliberate effort by the Israeli state to eradicate the population I think he should be allowed to do that. I know you feel the need to mention the hostages every time Gazan victims are mentioned and that's your choice. Equally other people can choose not to do that.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_resistance_to_Nazi_Germany#:~:text=In%20the%201920s%20and%201930s,denounced%20its%20%22false%20doctrines%22.

I don’t personally feel the need to mention the hostages every time Gazan victims are mentioned. Obviously in a discussion such as this you can have a particular focus .

However- I think a public statement from the pulpit has to be more even handed because of the context of the celebration of Mass.
I think it is right for a priest to mention the suffering of the Palestinians but also to mention the hostages and their families and to acknowledge that both sides have innocent victims.