Christmas in Bethlehem

[Auvergne63]

Another muted celebration in Bethlehem, Christ's birthplace for over 2 billions Christians.
https://international.la-croix.com/religion/in-bethlehem-a-christmas-marked-by-exhaustion-and-anxiety
The economic consequences of the "war" on this holy place are also staggering.
https://apnews.com/article/christmas-israel-palestinians-bethlehem-jesus-gaza-war-b508f651811c710e6d2f1994a3dcf131

there is a church in my hometown which displays nativities created by local people. I visited it yesterday and there were two that were my favourite : one to those that have died in Valencia this year and another one about made of playmobil representing what will be like life in Palestine

It's not a personal attack it is an observation on your posts I don't know you personally, I am responding to what and how you post and I take great issue with your attempts to deligitamise and discredit Palestinian support on here and worldwide nothing personal about that.

It does come across like a personal attack.

So do the words "white saviour" come as an attack. It implies that the posters here have no motivation to support end the mass murder other than "virtue signalling" another word that is bandied about on here with regularity.

It will never fail to amaze me the amount of posters on here who do not or cannot understand that the only motivation by those of us who stand against what is happening is that we simply want to see an end to the death and destruction.

In turn it shocks me that there are posters who can never see the actions of Israel and the IDF are wrong or misrepresented.

Hamas are evil terrorists, the IDF are brutal murderers.

I am not a "white saviour" to want this to stop.

I did not call Dulra a white saviour. That would be a personal attack.

Can you elaborate on how?

🤔

I think there are billions of people in the world, so that the experience of one person is not enough to build an opinion about a country upon. You can find people who loved visiting the UK and those who thought it was awful, but I doubt it will tell you much about the country as a whole. You'd be better off reading the history of the UK, watching its films, documentaries and footage of political debate, reading its literature, etc. In tandem, you could look at the literature and history of Colonialism and Empire, for a more complete understanding of the UK.

Now i remember why i should never post. Just Get sucked into a vortex of ever diminishing contributions and pain.

All I originally said was that
"All different religions live in peace, side by side in Israel, and all have equal rights. Can't say the same for the rest of the ME. Happy Christmas all"

@stormy4319trevor
For this I charmingly got called 'clueless'

So I gave my personal lived experience of Israel, which I thought may be interesting and happens to contradict certain views, most notably this absurd accusation that Israel is an 'apartheid state'.

It's so boring, people are purposely rude and confrontational, and then we have to spend time proving how the other one is wrong. 🥱

Please feel free to read and watch anything you want l, for days on end. But obv the same applies the other way round l, for everything you read, I can read something that says the opposite. Pls don't paint things as black and white, I'm sure you know there're not. 🤷🏽‍♂️

I will continue to share what I have personally experienced and hope that it may encourage others to want to find out for themselves

I'd ask if you have spent anytime in Israel? but I think ill know the answer...

@ThisPearlPeer13 I suppose I feel one's personal experience of a place is affected by sex, race/ethnicity, personality, class, religion, status, state of mind and sheer luck. I think there's no substitute for examining evidence carefully and reading widely.

Your personal experience is just that though. It isn't objective or unbiased.
Of course, you can read anything you want to support any views you have but critical thinking is very important to get to a semblance of truth.
this absurd accusation that Israel is an 'apartheid state'.
You experience of Israel as, and I assume this, a British citizen will be vastly different to that of a Palestinian from the West Bank.
To state that it is an absurd accusation, you need to provide evidence that it is, otherwise, it is your opinion.
I'd ask if you have spent anytime in Israel? but I think ill know the answer...
Strawman argument.

I was at mass today and the priest's sermon focused on Gaza, given that today is the Feast of the Slaughter of the Innocents. Prayers are no good to those caught up in this nightmare but I was glad to hear the priest speak in such strong terms about the massacres in Gaza.

I hope he also remembered the hostages.

I hope so too. Especially the British hostage Emily Damari. Its remarkable how often they get forgotten. Yet every event I have been to to call for their release has included heartfelt expressions of empathy for ordinary Palestinian civilians and all innocents caught up in this dreadful war.

No he didn't mention them. He was talking about the genocide in Northern Gaza, particularly the destruction of the last hospital in the region in recent days, leaving the civilian population homeless, without aid and basic requirements for life and now without any hospital whilst they are being attacked relentlessly.

Why do you think he couldn't find it in his heart to mention the hostages who are also in Gaza?

Believe it or not, I didn't ask him. But I think it's allowed to talk about what is happening in Gaza without being obliged to mention the hostages every single time. Obviously not everyone here agrees with that.

I suppose the genocide that's happening at the moment put him in mind of the biblical slaughter of the innocents and he chose to speak to his congregation about that on this particular day, which is his prerogative.

I'm finding it quite bizarre that I have to explain this, but then this is a strange place 😁

Sadly things have been awful for Christians in Bethlehem for a long time. Islamist groups in the Palestinian Territories have meant that christians have been fleeing for many years and are now a minority in Bethlehem. Israel is the only place in the Middle East where the Christian population has increased

Did he mention the attacks on Christians in the Palestinian Territories or Lebanon by Islamist terrorists groups? The Palestinian Authority and various Islamist terrorist groups (Palestinian Islamic Jihad and Hamas) have been fighting over control of a hospital in the West Bank for weeks.

No Jews, no news.

I don’t agree. The homilies at my Mass always mention both the innocent Palestinian civilians and the innocent Israeli hostages.
Not to mention both in a homily at Mass is wrong in my opinion because it is partisan.

If I was at your Mass I would definitely have asked him . But maybe where you are everyone thinks the same

No Jews no news, the typical response, look at what Pope Francis has said about Israel bombing children, do you think he is saying this because he hates Jews or is horrified by Israel’s killing of children?