Christmas in Bethlehem

[Auvergne63]

Another muted celebration in Bethlehem, Christ's birthplace for over 2 billions Christians.
https://international.la-croix.com/religion/in-bethlehem-a-christmas-marked-by-exhaustion-and-anxiety
The economic consequences of the "war" on this holy place are also staggering.
https://apnews.com/article/christmas-israel-palestinians-bethlehem-jesus-gaza-war-b508f651811c710e6d2f1994a3dcf131

There is still a small community of Palestinian Christians. Many have left because of a combination of oppression from extremists ( Hamas and Israeli settlers) as well as economic hardship.

I must be missing something as I didn’t think there were any Christians there for some time now? Thought Hamas/supported by majority of Palestinians had gotten rid of the most of the Christians, with the remaining minority basically being picked off by extremist groups?
I think it would be sensible if you informed yourself before posting.
Is the issue that given the current state of play, Christians from around the globe can’t go to Bethlehem as part of some pilgrimage, or something else?
You have lost me there.

@queenofarles
“You will find even in most Free countries some Christians feel threatened , take the US for example US , lots of hate crimes were committed towards churches and clinics that are pro life, lots of Christian businesses were taken to court by LGBTQ groups.”

Christians are not persecuted for their religion in the United States where the President (Catholic) and vice President (Baptist) are Christian as is 88% of Congress, and are 8 of 9 Supreme Court Justices. Christians hold the vast majority of the power and wealth in the US. Similarly, being taken to court by LGBTQ groups for breaking EEO and other equality laws isn’t religious persecution, it’s these marginalised groups fighting persecution by Christians on the basis of the (sinful) sexuality or identity nor is court action by women’s rights groups fighting for reproductive human rights religious persecution. Finally, Christians are the least likely religious group to be a victim of a religious hate crime in the US.

“In countries like Ukraine and Russia , orthodox Christians feel threatened too and can’t practice their chosen faith.”

This is just plain wrong. Hundreds of millions of orthodox Christians in Russia and Ukraine are freely practicing their faith. In Russia there are over 47 thousand orthodox churches and it is the most common Christian faith in Russia, practiced by over 70% of Russians. Putin is orthodox Christian (but with a Messiah complex). The same for Ukraine, where 72% of the population are orthodox Christians, and a further 10% are other types of Christian although Zelensky is himself Jewish.

More than 365m Christians suffer high levels of persecution and discrimination for their faith.
In Open Doors’ World Watch List top 50 alone, 317m Christians face very high or extreme levels.
https://www.opendoors.org/en-US/persecution/countries/

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/B-8-2016-0458_EN.html

All different religions live in peace, side by side in Israel, and all have equal rights. Can't say the same for the rest of the ME. Happy Christmas all.

No, they don't. There have been multiple reports from national and international organisations, documenting how religious and ethnicity based inequality remain significant issues in Israel. That's in addition to the Occupied Territories, where inequality and oppression are rife.

This comment is clueless.

My comment is "clueless" is it???!! Have you even ever been to Israel? I have and lived and worked there for a while. I've Witnessed first hand how people live together, work together, laugh together, serve in the army together, are in parliament together in the Knesset. There are neighbourhoods, often more rural, where different ethnicities live more separately. This is natural. Is Israel perfect, of course not, but show me one country in the world that is. It is definitely more inclusive than the rest of the ME! So don't come at me with being clueless.

I Beg to Differ spirit ,
setting churches on fire is not fighting for women rights , taking small businesses to court and causing great financial damage is not fighting for minorities rights, it is provocation.

perhaps you are not aware that Ukraine’s parliament has passed a bill which ultimately would totally ban the UOC. Ukrainian Orthodox Church Moscow Patriarchate. due to the ongoing conflict .

I have, and my experience was different to yours.

Also making your comments at a time when they're committing genocide or close enough is, in my opinion, clueless.

No.

There's plenty of information on apartheid conditions in Israel and the conditions inflicted upon those in the Occupied Territories for those who care to know about them.

Its your particular experience that would be interesting, seems a shame not to share it. We can all read reports and journalism but I've learnt a lot from friends who have been.

No thanks. You're here every day of the week constantly defending Israel. You must either be Israeli or have some other strong connection to and knowledge of the country to be so devoted to it?

I'm not sure my experience could possibly add to that or change your perspective.

I am not Israeli, and I don't have any Israeli connections. Knowledge is easy to acquire if you can read and make it your business to get to know people who have it & share it. which does make me wonder why you won't share yours.

I'm not 'devoted' to Israel. Not at all. Im more devoted to other parts of the world in fact, which is why I can spot the problem with some people's obsession with Israel and irrational double standards here in organisations that have fetished the Palestinian cause for so long while ignoring the rest of the world. I do know many Jewish people though. A few have personal connections to Israel but most don't. And I will always be an ally to them against prejudice.

organisations that have fetished the Palestinian cause
What a sick and inappropriate thing to suggest, no words.
Your whole post stinks of hate for Palestinians and prejudice against them.

Knowledge is easy to acquire. There's plenty out there on Israel's horrendous treatment of Palestinians over the decades for those who want to know about it and see it.

You seem pretty obsessed with Israel yourself. I am surprised you have no connection to the place. Maybe you should visit. It might open your viewpoint.

Also I have to agree with the previous poster re your "fetishisation" comment. Maybe it's a dislike of Palestinians rather than a devotion to Israel that drives you?

I would have thought someone who claims to dislike prejudice would have empathy with a group like the Palestinians rather than their oppressors and tormentors but I guess it takes all sorts.

I would guess you are a religious person with a settler-colonial mindset who believes in the promised land from your posts though. I'm having a hard time to believe you don't have any connections to Israel. Of course, you don't have to prove anything and I'm free to think otherwise.

'No words' And yet you found more words to accuse me of hating Palestinians. Which is a nasty personal attack with no basis. I do not hate Palestinians. I have been around this subject a very long time and I absolutely stand by my comment. The Palestinians actually need better friends than the white saviour types who are fixated with them. I didn't say you were one of them. Its an observation of the people I have known and the way this subject is taken up by universities, arts organisations, unions etc etc.

I have a huge amount of empathy for ordinary Palestinians civilians. What is so heartbreaking is the lack of empathy for Israelis.

Im trying to figure out what people find hard to grasp in what I said. Pethaps its that I don't think the world is divided into goodies and baddies and love and hate. You seem to think if I don't love Israel it must be that I dislike Palestinians. When actually its neither?

This is actually hilarious thanks for a proper laugh. Apologies if you intended it to upset me. I am an atheist. I can't begin to explain how far from having a 'settler-colonial' mindset I am without revealing personal details but, it is funny.

I'm flattered that my opinions are so important to you all but perhaps we could get back to playing the ball not the (wo)man now?

I'm not engaging further in your personal attack.