Can anyone help me undestand who we want to win in Syria?

[MeJuly]

Obviously what I really want is for all the killing to stop. But I can't work out which of the sides would be better for us here in the UK if they won. Can anyone who understands what the hell is going on help?

I am going to be intrigued to see the horrendously tenuous argument trying to link Israel with Syria to effectively blame Israel for the forthcoming conflict here as if it some sort of covert expansion of Israeli military action. Maybe those Russian jets are piloted by the IDF?

Agree. The two are related though. This is why I pull people up on ridiculous unfactual claims that essentially amount to Israel being the worst regime in history when that just is not rational. It leads to crazy conclusions like Israel is a worse regime than Assad. And it is all driven by hate.

I never said whether it was right or wrong I merely pointed out that they are involved, so no need for such a sarcastic response

The reasons they are involved (essentially containing Hezbollah), when there is already someone on this thread suggesting that Israel is worse than Assad & collaborating with the US to engineer regime change is is quite a significant nuance.

I think Assad struggles to measure up to the crimes of the Israeli administration, so having the Israelis act as arbiters of justice isn't reassuring

I mean he killed far, far more people, including with chemicals weapons, but he's, what? Not Jewish so that makes it better?

@Scirocco

"The removal of Assad's regime in itself would be cause for a lot of celebration around the world. It's the 'how' and 'what next' questions that are a bit more complicated."

Unfortunately it's was exactly that approach that created the mess that Libya is now in.

Yes Assad 's regime is a dictatorship but remove him and it will create a protracted civil war involving extremist islamists with their origins in Al Queda where very large numbers of innocent people will get killed.

So yes Assad is a dictator but the people of Syria would much rather have peace, stability and security every time over regime change.

This is why I pull people up on ridiculous unfactual claims that essentially amount to Israel being the worst regime in history when that just is not rational. It leads to crazy conclusions like Israel is a worse regime than Assad.
What kind of claims are you making here about posters? Stop putting words in peoples mouths, no one, as far as I can see, has said or implied that Israel are the worst regime in history or worse than Assad. But don't forget they have right wing extreme racist ministers spouting pretty horrific things and also a Prime Minister that has an arrest warrant out for him for crimes against humanity, they are facts and they are the facts that people judge the current Israeli government by. I am not sure why you would claim that that judgement is based on hate rather than the actions of the current Israeli government? Yes pull people up on unfactual claims but you also tend to try and minimise the reality of what is happening too.

The main external actors here are Turkey, Iran and Russia. Israel is only tangentially involved.

It feels like posters are trying to suggest Israel is a major player and they really aren’t here. They are not purposefully engaging with anyone who doesn’t pose a direct threat to them, hell according to pp they are actually trying to help the Druze there.

I imagine they will align with the kurds at some point and offer them aid in some way, which would be nice given that the western world is doing their best to ignore their obligations to the Kurds which is utterly fucking shameful imo.

Upthread:
'I think Assad struggles to measure up to the crimes of the Israeli administration'.

I refer you to my earlier summary of the crimes of Assad.

Yes, the narrative that exceptionalises & amplifies the faults of Israel out of all proportion to reality & context is driven by hatred and is accepted by all authorities on antisemitism as one of the cornerstones of antisemitism.

I think it's just best to accept there is no winning at all. There never is in any war.

Upthread:
'I think Assad struggles to measure up to the crimes of the Israeli administration'.
Quote and challenge the poster we are all individuals here so stop assuming we all think and post the same

Yes, the narrative that exceptionalises & amplifies the faults of Israel out of all proportion to reality & context is driven by hatred and is accepted by all authorities on antisemitism as one of the cornerstones of antisemitism.
Who is deciding if it is out of all proportion to reality & context, You?

Sweeping generalisations just annoy me because it is a tool for delegitimising all posters with a different opinion to you

The narrative that minimises and excuses Israel's crimes against humanity is also driven by hatred and is on full display here.

What are you talking about? I already did challenge the poster. Where did I say everyone thinks the same? But there are patterns of group think. Really your personal attacks are getting very tedious.

Back to the point Op I don’t think you can pick a side, I’m most worried for minorities at this point though. I think theres a genuine threat of ethnic cleansing on the horizon and Islamist style, so beheadings and torture.

Already read that some kurds have been beheaded by the SNA. Fucking miserable, these people are disgusting.

Its absolutely horrific. I'm devastated that its all picking up again & it does seem so complicated given the wider geopolitical context. Syrian civilians have been through so much.

Try forming your own opinion.

Already read that some kurds have been beheaded by the SNA. Fucking miserable, these people are disgusting.

Distressingly, I've also seen footage of young Kurdish women being kidnapped.

Feel quite sick about whats going to happen to minorities there. Jolani has stated they expect the HTS and SNA rebels to be tolerant but so far the exact opposite has been happening. Think he’s lying through his teeth.

Apparently 30’000 iraqi shia militants have entered Syria. Great.

Really your personal attacks are getting very tedious.
It is not a personal attack it is pulling you up on your generalisations about posters on these threads. Sorry if you find it tedious but you are posting on a comments board so you're comments are going to be challenged if people disagree with them.

Where did I say everyone thinks the same?
Well here - But there are patterns of group think.

I'm sorry you don't understand how group think works but I can't help you if you're determined not to understand.

Scary isn't it. Anti semitism alive and kicking, the 'Jews' are worse than pretty much anyone. Shocking. Although predictable.

A sad day. Assad is awful. Terrorists are awful. More innocents will die. It probably won't make it to more than a small slot on headline news if that. Most people won't even be aware.

Of course I understand how group think works. I am arguing that we are individual posters here that do not fall into the "group think" theory. If you are talking about society as whole fine but you inferred posters here.
but I can't help you if you're determined not to understand.
Seriously

I do wonder how long HTS will tolerate the SNA and turkish militias. They’ve been trying to form the impression of being a credible possible government.

@User37482

"I do wonder how long HTS will tolerate the SNA and turkish militias"

Basically until they are in a dominant position as the main force against Assad at which they will turn on the SNA and everyone else.

There are no good guys in this conflict but the lesser of two evils is that the Assad regime stays in power.