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Conflict in the Middle East

Finally an icc arrest warrant for netanyahu is issued.

197 replies

Hididi11 · 22/11/2024 05:13

Discussing this with friends
I'm quite appauled that it took the death of 50000 civilians (mostly children) before a warrant was issued.

When will the arrest warrant for tony Blair be issued???

A friend said that this is war and to get over it. Aibu in thinking the arrest was correct?

I know families wiped out. And refugee camps set on fire. I mean it has been going on for over the last 75 years.
I'm so glad that Warner brothers are going to release a movie about the nakba.
Found it really sick that netflix deleted their movie of the Palestinian who saw all her family die before her eyes and her house get occupied.

I think the coverage of the Christian palestians has been utterly shambolic.

The orthodox Jews have separated themselves from netanyahu and say what he is doing is wrong.

All news outlets in Palestine removed by Israel.
Israel has controlled their water supply amongst other things for years.

Another friend said "what if the European pagans just came to UK and said that this is their land and they want it back and then they remove all of us to Devon and then try and take Devon"

OP posts:
EvilsElsasPetSnowman · 22/11/2024 22:02

Hididi11 · 22/11/2024 21:59

Let's be perfectly clear. There are Jews, Christians and Muslims who have lived in Palestine for thousands of years. Yes there are Christians who have lived there for years and years and years.
Those Jewish, Christian and Muslims palestians deserve to live in their land.
Being Palestinian is an ethnicity not a religion!!!!
This isn't a war on religion. It is a war on an ethnicity.

Being Jewish is an ethnicity
Where do you think Jewish people actually come from??

MothToAnInferno · 22/11/2024 22:05

whiteroseredrose · 22/11/2024 21:56

I was wondering, with all these atrocities in the world, why this was the one people were marching about.

That poster was wrong in what she said. The ICC don't have any jurisdiction over the countries that she mentioned, that is why the ICC haven't been able to act on those countries. Israel haven't signed the agreement either but Palestine have and as those members of the Israeli government are committing their crimes against humanity against Palestinians they can be charged. It isn't selective like she is trying to make out, she is either ill informed or trying to stir.

The protests in the UK are about the UKs support of war criminals, the ex PM Sunak went over to slap a now alleged war criminal on the back and told him that he hopes he wins. Up until recently enough the UK government refused to even acknowledge that Israel may not be acting within International law. Where as to use one of the examples that poster gave they acknowledged and condemned the genocide of the Uyghurs in China for instance years ago.

EvilsElsasPetSnowman · 22/11/2024 22:15

MothToAnInferno · 22/11/2024 22:05

That poster was wrong in what she said. The ICC don't have any jurisdiction over the countries that she mentioned, that is why the ICC haven't been able to act on those countries. Israel haven't signed the agreement either but Palestine have and as those members of the Israeli government are committing their crimes against humanity against Palestinians they can be charged. It isn't selective like she is trying to make out, she is either ill informed or trying to stir.

The protests in the UK are about the UKs support of war criminals, the ex PM Sunak went over to slap a now alleged war criminal on the back and told him that he hopes he wins. Up until recently enough the UK government refused to even acknowledge that Israel may not be acting within International law. Where as to use one of the examples that poster gave they acknowledged and condemned the genocide of the Uyghurs in China for instance years ago.

Edited

Please do not downplay the antisemitism present in the so-called peaceful marches. Swatstikas, genocidal change, Hamas support…SOME people may be protesting against the govt but a hell of a lot are expressing their hatred under the guise of progression

MothToAnInferno · 22/11/2024 22:47

EvilsElsasPetSnowman · 22/11/2024 22:15

Please do not downplay the antisemitism present in the so-called peaceful marches. Swatstikas, genocidal change, Hamas support…SOME people may be protesting against the govt but a hell of a lot are expressing their hatred under the guise of progression

I dont know why you are addressing your post at me. The post I replied to didn't mention antisemitism, I didn't downplay anything. I explained why the ICC couldn't do anything about the countries mentioned and why people haven't protested so much against the countries that the government already condemns and sanctions.

I would interested to see you stats for 'a hell of a lot' though? Where are you getting this information from? Have surveys of protest goers been done or is this based on how you feel rather than facts? If it is based on how you feel that's fine of course you can feel anyway that you like but it would be a good idea to be clear that your post is based on feelings not facts.

EvilsElsasPetSnowman · 22/11/2024 22:52

MothToAnInferno · 22/11/2024 22:47

I dont know why you are addressing your post at me. The post I replied to didn't mention antisemitism, I didn't downplay anything. I explained why the ICC couldn't do anything about the countries mentioned and why people haven't protested so much against the countries that the government already condemns and sanctions.

I would interested to see you stats for 'a hell of a lot' though? Where are you getting this information from? Have surveys of protest goers been done or is this based on how you feel rather than facts? If it is based on how you feel that's fine of course you can feel anyway that you like but it would be a good idea to be clear that your post is based on feelings not facts.

Edited

Because I have eyes.

Are you saying there isn’t antisemitism at these marches?

Proudestmumofone1 · 23/11/2024 06:42

Sorry there isn’t a peer reviewed research paper to quote.

however anyone with eyes (open and willing to listen to Jews and their experiences) will have seen photos from marches with countless banners and signs praising Hitler, saying Hamas are not terrorists, saying from the river to the sea… etc. Then add in the many videos online where Jewish people are not allowed within the vicinity of the march - oh the hypocrisy.

Beyondthedarksun · 23/11/2024 07:28

mouthpipette · 22/11/2024 20:53

@Beyondthedarksun wrote,
"But seriously, no wonder Jewish people don't want to post on mumsnet these days."

You meant to write "some Jewish people". Didn't you?

Thanks for telling me what I meant to write, not patronising at all.

EvilsElsasPetSnowman · 23/11/2024 08:41

Proudestmumofone1 · 23/11/2024 06:42

Sorry there isn’t a peer reviewed research paper to quote.

however anyone with eyes (open and willing to listen to Jews and their experiences) will have seen photos from marches with countless banners and signs praising Hitler, saying Hamas are not terrorists, saying from the river to the sea… etc. Then add in the many videos online where Jewish people are not allowed within the vicinity of the march - oh the hypocrisy.

Yes and the denial and downplaying of Jewish oppression is a tale as old as time and has been instrumental in justifying the exiling, murdering and ostracising of Jewish people, so I wish that in 2024 people would just fucking stop doing it.

Thewokewokingwarrior · 23/11/2024 09:53

To clarify, not praising Sinwar but using the example that the Israeli government lied about H group stealing all the food from the civilians but in actual fact he himself had not eaten for three days so it shows he hadn't been hoarding any supplies.

I just want the genocide to stop- the bombings of hospitals, refugee camps, schools, UN workers, is every single person or entity in Gaza anti-Semetic?
The Palestinians themselves are semites.
I don't understand how you can just decide to turf a group of people off the land their ancestors have been living on and then keep doing that even until present day.
If someone burst into your home in South London and kicked you out you wouldn't have anything to say about it?
At the end of the day though you can all be happy because the fact is this genocide will continue until there is no-one left cos everyone is KHAMAS and you can grab your beachfront properties in Gaza. ENJOY!

EvilsElsasPetSnowman · 23/11/2024 10:10

The Palestinians themselves are semites.

Oh yawn.
This is yet more tactics to downplay anti-semitism. You know what it means and who the victims are.

No wanting the genocide to stop is not antisemitic. However the Pro-Palestinian movement’s refusal to see both sides, to swallow antisemitic lies about Israel, to downplay the danger of Hamas is teetering on the edge. Then playing semantics with a word that firmly means “Jewish hatred” to try and twist to to mean something else, is VERY close to the bone of antisemitism.

I don't understand how you can just decide to turf a group of people off the land their ancestors have been living on and then keep doing that even until present day.

Its posts like these that make me realise how little people know about the creation of Israel. There has been more recent incidents of this happening - are you horrified at those?

Also do you think BMP pre-Israel was the budding liberal highly populated metropolis it is today? And are you anti-immigration in any other ways? Because Jewish people fleeing the high risk of murder to Israel was the very essence of immigration. Also Gaza has been under Palestinian control with 0 Jews since 2005

All these little nuances point to a very worrying picture.

Rachel757677 · 23/11/2024 10:15

Disgraceful decision. However, nobody will dare enforce it when Trump is in, so it's a waste of time. It's the beginning of the end for The ICC. This Khan man has a Tory MP for a brother who's been charged with noncing, and he has also been accused of sexual assault.

Sunflowersinwinter · 23/11/2024 10:36

Rachel757677 · 23/11/2024 10:15

Disgraceful decision. However, nobody will dare enforce it when Trump is in, so it's a waste of time. It's the beginning of the end for The ICC. This Khan man has a Tory MP for a brother who's been charged with noncing, and he has also been accused of sexual assault.

Edited

Why is it disgraceful? If Netanyahu didn't want this day to come, he should not have committed war crimes. He was warned over and over again by the US no less, that the amount of aid COGAT was allowing in was far too less. Human rights organisations have been saying for months that people are starving. You should follow Israeli group Peace Now. They have been speaking up against the war crimes carried out by their government for a long time but all falls on deaf ears.

9021Pho · 23/11/2024 13:51

Being Palestinian is an ethnicity not a religion!!!!
This isn't a war on religion. It is a war on an ethnicity.

Sorry but you’re talking absolute rot. If you don’t know or understand what you’re saying, maybe don’t start a thread on MN

If they are an ethic group, why don’t they have their own language? Why are they speaking the language (Arabic) of colonisers and invaders? Because they are the descendants of colonisers and invaders.

At the end of the day Palestinians are Arabs - there is no such thing as a separate Palestinian people. The Gazans are mainly Egyptian (their surnames bear this out). The Israeli Arabs that decided to stay after 1947 had most likely lived on the land for centuries. And the ones who now live under Palestinian Authority rule in the West Bank are made up of peoples who came to the land from all over the Ottoman Empire. Again, you can tell by the surnames. You can also tell by studying Ottoman and British Mandate census accounts and records. It’s all verifiable.

And here’s the thing, because the British Mandate was so well run and there was a good chance a migrant could get employment, there was lots of legal and illegal immigration from Syria, Lebanon and Egypt. Under the Ottomans, the population of Palestine generally was small. Jerusalem, for obvious reasons, was an exception. Palestine as a nation and ‘population’ is relatively recent construct. They didn’t even start calling themselves Palestinians until the mid-ish 60s, it was the Soviet Union that even gave them the idea(seems legit doesn’t it). They are Arabs.

By contrast, the connection between the Jewish people and Israel goes back long before the birth of either Christianity or Islam. Jews created a society there in the days of Joshua, a kingdom in the days of Saul, and a nation with Jerusalem as its capital in the days of King David - more than 3,000 years ago.

Jews are the only people who ever created a nation state there. At all other times in the past 3,000 years it was merely an administrative district in an empire whose centre was elsewhere: the Assyrian, Babylonian, Persian, Alexandrian, Roman and Byzantine empires, the Crusaders of the Holy Roman Empire, the various Muslim empires such as the Umayyads, Abbasids, Fatimids, Mamluks and Ottomans, and finally the British. Jews are the only people who have maintained a continuous presence in the land. They are its indigenous, original inhabitants.

If Palestinians were really an ethnic group, as you claim, they would have leapt at the chance to achieve their own sovereignty and independence at every opportunity it was offered. Let’s check the history books on this one, shall we shall we:

If Palestinian Arabs were interested in sovereignty they would've volunteered to fight the Ottoman occupation in 1917. They didn't - Jews did.

In fact, during WWI, the British, Who were professional colonisers, sponsored Arab nationalism to weaken their enemy, the Ottoman Empire. The British designed the Palestinian flag. There was no
"Palestinian nationalism" independent of Arab nationalism until the 1920s, when raging antisemite and future Hitler best mate Amin Al-Husseini (the godfather of Palestinian and cousin of one Yasser Arafat) had a little falling out with the rest of his Arab nationalists and decided he wanted to do his own thing.

Palestinian Arabs would've taken the single, unified Palestinian state that was proposed to them in 1937 and 1939. They refused, because they wouldn't accept any Jews in their country.

Palestinian Arabs would've accepted the partition plan in 1947. Instead, they chose to start a genocidal war — two years after the holocaust, by the way — and they lost.

Palestinian Arabs would've worked on state building in the Gaza Strip and in the West Bank between 1948-1967. Instead, they claimed those territories weren't actually Palestine. But when Israel captured them in 1967 (the Six Day War, a war that - guess what - was started by the Arabs), they changed their tune and claimed Gaza and the West Bank did in fact belong to them after all.

Palestinian Arabs would've accepted a state in 1979, 1993-2001, 2000, 2005, and 2008. They said no every time and chose murdering Jews instead.

So now you know, please stop lying on the internet. Thanks.

EvilsElsasPetSnowman · 23/11/2024 17:11

9021Pho · 23/11/2024 13:51

Being Palestinian is an ethnicity not a religion!!!!
This isn't a war on religion. It is a war on an ethnicity.

Sorry but you’re talking absolute rot. If you don’t know or understand what you’re saying, maybe don’t start a thread on MN

If they are an ethic group, why don’t they have their own language? Why are they speaking the language (Arabic) of colonisers and invaders? Because they are the descendants of colonisers and invaders.

At the end of the day Palestinians are Arabs - there is no such thing as a separate Palestinian people. The Gazans are mainly Egyptian (their surnames bear this out). The Israeli Arabs that decided to stay after 1947 had most likely lived on the land for centuries. And the ones who now live under Palestinian Authority rule in the West Bank are made up of peoples who came to the land from all over the Ottoman Empire. Again, you can tell by the surnames. You can also tell by studying Ottoman and British Mandate census accounts and records. It’s all verifiable.

And here’s the thing, because the British Mandate was so well run and there was a good chance a migrant could get employment, there was lots of legal and illegal immigration from Syria, Lebanon and Egypt. Under the Ottomans, the population of Palestine generally was small. Jerusalem, for obvious reasons, was an exception. Palestine as a nation and ‘population’ is relatively recent construct. They didn’t even start calling themselves Palestinians until the mid-ish 60s, it was the Soviet Union that even gave them the idea(seems legit doesn’t it). They are Arabs.

By contrast, the connection between the Jewish people and Israel goes back long before the birth of either Christianity or Islam. Jews created a society there in the days of Joshua, a kingdom in the days of Saul, and a nation with Jerusalem as its capital in the days of King David - more than 3,000 years ago.

Jews are the only people who ever created a nation state there. At all other times in the past 3,000 years it was merely an administrative district in an empire whose centre was elsewhere: the Assyrian, Babylonian, Persian, Alexandrian, Roman and Byzantine empires, the Crusaders of the Holy Roman Empire, the various Muslim empires such as the Umayyads, Abbasids, Fatimids, Mamluks and Ottomans, and finally the British. Jews are the only people who have maintained a continuous presence in the land. They are its indigenous, original inhabitants.

If Palestinians were really an ethnic group, as you claim, they would have leapt at the chance to achieve their own sovereignty and independence at every opportunity it was offered. Let’s check the history books on this one, shall we shall we:

If Palestinian Arabs were interested in sovereignty they would've volunteered to fight the Ottoman occupation in 1917. They didn't - Jews did.

In fact, during WWI, the British, Who were professional colonisers, sponsored Arab nationalism to weaken their enemy, the Ottoman Empire. The British designed the Palestinian flag. There was no
"Palestinian nationalism" independent of Arab nationalism until the 1920s, when raging antisemite and future Hitler best mate Amin Al-Husseini (the godfather of Palestinian and cousin of one Yasser Arafat) had a little falling out with the rest of his Arab nationalists and decided he wanted to do his own thing.

Palestinian Arabs would've taken the single, unified Palestinian state that was proposed to them in 1937 and 1939. They refused, because they wouldn't accept any Jews in their country.

Palestinian Arabs would've accepted the partition plan in 1947. Instead, they chose to start a genocidal war — two years after the holocaust, by the way — and they lost.

Palestinian Arabs would've worked on state building in the Gaza Strip and in the West Bank between 1948-1967. Instead, they claimed those territories weren't actually Palestine. But when Israel captured them in 1967 (the Six Day War, a war that - guess what - was started by the Arabs), they changed their tune and claimed Gaza and the West Bank did in fact belong to them after all.

Palestinian Arabs would've accepted a state in 1979, 1993-2001, 2000, 2005, and 2008. They said no every time and chose murdering Jews instead.

So now you know, please stop lying on the internet. Thanks.

👏🏼 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

Buddhistcauliflower · 23/11/2024 17:18

9021Pho · 23/11/2024 13:51

Being Palestinian is an ethnicity not a religion!!!!
This isn't a war on religion. It is a war on an ethnicity.

Sorry but you’re talking absolute rot. If you don’t know or understand what you’re saying, maybe don’t start a thread on MN

If they are an ethic group, why don’t they have their own language? Why are they speaking the language (Arabic) of colonisers and invaders? Because they are the descendants of colonisers and invaders.

At the end of the day Palestinians are Arabs - there is no such thing as a separate Palestinian people. The Gazans are mainly Egyptian (their surnames bear this out). The Israeli Arabs that decided to stay after 1947 had most likely lived on the land for centuries. And the ones who now live under Palestinian Authority rule in the West Bank are made up of peoples who came to the land from all over the Ottoman Empire. Again, you can tell by the surnames. You can also tell by studying Ottoman and British Mandate census accounts and records. It’s all verifiable.

And here’s the thing, because the British Mandate was so well run and there was a good chance a migrant could get employment, there was lots of legal and illegal immigration from Syria, Lebanon and Egypt. Under the Ottomans, the population of Palestine generally was small. Jerusalem, for obvious reasons, was an exception. Palestine as a nation and ‘population’ is relatively recent construct. They didn’t even start calling themselves Palestinians until the mid-ish 60s, it was the Soviet Union that even gave them the idea(seems legit doesn’t it). They are Arabs.

By contrast, the connection between the Jewish people and Israel goes back long before the birth of either Christianity or Islam. Jews created a society there in the days of Joshua, a kingdom in the days of Saul, and a nation with Jerusalem as its capital in the days of King David - more than 3,000 years ago.

Jews are the only people who ever created a nation state there. At all other times in the past 3,000 years it was merely an administrative district in an empire whose centre was elsewhere: the Assyrian, Babylonian, Persian, Alexandrian, Roman and Byzantine empires, the Crusaders of the Holy Roman Empire, the various Muslim empires such as the Umayyads, Abbasids, Fatimids, Mamluks and Ottomans, and finally the British. Jews are the only people who have maintained a continuous presence in the land. They are its indigenous, original inhabitants.

If Palestinians were really an ethnic group, as you claim, they would have leapt at the chance to achieve their own sovereignty and independence at every opportunity it was offered. Let’s check the history books on this one, shall we shall we:

If Palestinian Arabs were interested in sovereignty they would've volunteered to fight the Ottoman occupation in 1917. They didn't - Jews did.

In fact, during WWI, the British, Who were professional colonisers, sponsored Arab nationalism to weaken their enemy, the Ottoman Empire. The British designed the Palestinian flag. There was no
"Palestinian nationalism" independent of Arab nationalism until the 1920s, when raging antisemite and future Hitler best mate Amin Al-Husseini (the godfather of Palestinian and cousin of one Yasser Arafat) had a little falling out with the rest of his Arab nationalists and decided he wanted to do his own thing.

Palestinian Arabs would've taken the single, unified Palestinian state that was proposed to them in 1937 and 1939. They refused, because they wouldn't accept any Jews in their country.

Palestinian Arabs would've accepted the partition plan in 1947. Instead, they chose to start a genocidal war — two years after the holocaust, by the way — and they lost.

Palestinian Arabs would've worked on state building in the Gaza Strip and in the West Bank between 1948-1967. Instead, they claimed those territories weren't actually Palestine. But when Israel captured them in 1967 (the Six Day War, a war that - guess what - was started by the Arabs), they changed their tune and claimed Gaza and the West Bank did in fact belong to them after all.

Palestinian Arabs would've accepted a state in 1979, 1993-2001, 2000, 2005, and 2008. They said no every time and chose murdering Jews instead.

So now you know, please stop lying on the internet. Thanks.

🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

Lollypop25 · 23/11/2024 17:20

hattie43 · 22/11/2024 06:43

Blame Hamas no one else . They think very little of their citizens before starting this war .
I can understand Israel wanting it over and done with forever .

Be quiet

AnotherChildFreeCatLady · 23/11/2024 17:35

Guavafish1 · 22/11/2024 06:06

It will come to nothing

genocidal manic

Unfortunately this is probably true, however he is definitely a monster who deserves to rot in prison.

MothToAnInferno · 23/11/2024 22:27

EvilsElsasPetSnowman · 22/11/2024 22:52

Because I have eyes.

Are you saying there isn’t antisemitism at these marches?

I didn't say that. I asked about your assertion of 'a hell of a lot'. Like I said it's fine if it is based off a feeling. I feel like a lot of the support Israel get and the apathy towards what is happening to Palestinians is based off racism and Islamaphobia. I don't think think as many people would be supporting the country responsible for sniping little children(as reported by international Drs) if they were white little Christian children being shot in the head in cold blood. That's my feelings though, I wouldn't assert it as fact because 'I have eyes' even though to me it seems very obvious what is happening.

EvilsElsasPetSnowman · 23/11/2024 22:29

MothToAnInferno · 23/11/2024 22:27

I didn't say that. I asked about your assertion of 'a hell of a lot'. Like I said it's fine if it is based off a feeling. I feel like a lot of the support Israel get and the apathy towards what is happening to Palestinians is based off racism and Islamaphobia. I don't think think as many people would be supporting the country responsible for sniping little children(as reported by international Drs) if they were white little Christian children being shot in the head in cold blood. That's my feelings though, I wouldn't assert it as fact because 'I have eyes' even though to me it seems very obvious what is happening.

It’s not based off a feeling it’s based on seeing countless antisemitic and pro-Hamas signs and seeing intimidating behaviour every week on these marches.

Again are you denying that there’s antisemitism on these marches? Because I don’t really understand you’re point except to downplay racism against Jewish people

MothToAnInferno · 23/11/2024 22:32

EvilsElsasPetSnowman · 23/11/2024 22:29

It’s not based off a feeling it’s based on seeing countless antisemitic and pro-Hamas signs and seeing intimidating behaviour every week on these marches.

Again are you denying that there’s antisemitism on these marches? Because I don’t really understand you’re point except to downplay racism against Jewish people

Nope, again I'm not denying that there is some. Some ≠ 'a heck of a lot'.

I don't agree with demonising the 10s of 1000s of people that do care about the toddlers that are being shot in the head in cold blood because some people are antisemtic.

EvilsElsasPetSnowman · 23/11/2024 22:33

MothToAnInferno · 23/11/2024 22:32

Nope, again I'm not denying that there is some. Some ≠ 'a heck of a lot'.

I don't agree with demonising the 10s of 1000s of people that do care about the toddlers that are being shot in the head in cold blood because some people are antisemtic.

See this overly emotive language doesn’t wash with me. Especially when you will downplay antisemitism in another breath.

You say some, I say a hell of a lot. Have you got an days that tells me it’s only some?

MothToAnInferno · 23/11/2024 22:36

EvilsElsasPetSnowman · 23/11/2024 22:33

See this overly emotive language doesn’t wash with me. Especially when you will downplay antisemitism in another breath.

You say some, I say a hell of a lot. Have you got an days that tells me it’s only some?

What overly emotive language?

MothToAnInferno · 23/11/2024 22:38

EvilsElsasPetSnowman · 23/11/2024 22:33

See this overly emotive language doesn’t wash with me. Especially when you will downplay antisemitism in another breath.

You say some, I say a hell of a lot. Have you got an days that tells me it’s only some?

The number of arrests will tell you that. Police are everywhere at those marches.

EvilsElsasPetSnowman · 23/11/2024 22:41

MothToAnInferno · 23/11/2024 22:38

The number of arrests will tell you that. Police are everywhere at those marches.

They’re doing fuck all about it though.

You can lie to yourself all you like that these marches are peaceful and not filled with hate but those of us in the real world see the truth

SpeaksBeforeThinking · 23/11/2024 22:45

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