"You see us burning, you stay silent..."

[Scirocco]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cr54y0qplgvo

Please, read, listen and see what is being done to innocent people here.

Remember them.

Now, perhaps more than at any previous time in history, we can easily know the human cost of hate and violence, and the human cost of looking away.

Remember them. And remember all the other innocent people who have died and continue to die because of hatred and because of apathy.

What is happening in Gaza is horrific. For several months after the conflict broke out I was deeply affected mentally by the horrific images and videos I was seeing on social media. I had to take a step back from looking at them, it became a strange, rather self absorbed form of self harm. I still don’t quite understand it. I think the main reason it had such a major impact on my mental health was because so many of our politicians were saying ‘Israel has a right to self defence’ ad nauseum when anyone with half a brain cell can see that Israel’s response is unbelievably disproportionate and breaks pretty much every rule of war that there is. It is incredibly upsetting because we like to feel we’re on the ‘right’ side. But when you feel a mass extermination of an entire people is happening, documented on all types of media, but our politicians seem to be doing nothing, it is deeply upsetting.

I have donated to some charities and will continue to do so. However, in recent months I have developed a slightly different perspective. I think our politicians are trying to do something, behind the scenes. I think that the UK’s influence in this region is minimal. I think Hamas is a horrific institution. I think the IDF are horrific too in their response and the way aid is being held back. The actions of settlers on the West Bank is also deplorable.

Yet, we need to accept that there are limits to what we can do as civilians in a tiny island thousands of miles away. Reading and watching endless articles and images of this suffering isn’t helping the Palestinians. The truth is that the entire region is run by religious extremists. Iran is a horrific regime. I think Netanyahu and his extremist cronies are just as bad.

There is suffering all over the world. Terrible things happen. We are so fortunate to live in this country where (touch wood) there is peace. I think do things like donate, sign petitions, etc, but also accept what we cannot change and to be honest do not fully understand.

I am not sure why I am posting this - perhaps because my mental health was hugely affected by seeing images of dead/injured children and I’ve had to come to a way of looking at it where I’m not doing nothing, but I am able to live my life.

China has concentration camps again right now.

So do the USA 🇺🇸

Even if the only thing you can do is hold in your heart that what is happening is wrong, that's still worth doing. The things we hold in our hearts shape how we go on to act - it's probably better for ourselves and those around us, for us to hold on to compassion for others and a recognition of right and wrong, rather than cynicism, dismissiveness or hate.

This is the kind of sermonising, preachy nonsense that is really offensive. Like anybody who objects to the hypocritical hand-wringing doesn't care and has no compassion. My entire point was that nobody seemed to have any compassion for the very many other children dying all over the world throughout their lives, but now we have to listen to the virtue signalling that won't change anything whatsoever. It is not "hate" or "dismissiveness" to discuss facts, especially from people promoting the very types of illogical religious ideologies that have caused all of this unnecessary suffering in this case. Honestly, it really is a waste of time trying to have a rational discussion with many posters on this forum.

Ha- The British Empire may be gone but the wealth it plundered from all corners of the the world to fill its coffers is still in existence. This was a country that enslaved, pillaged murdered huge swathes of people. It cut countries into pieces like they were steaks- not just Palestine but India, causing violence and bloodshed to follow. The consequences are still being felt today so yes the UK most definitely has a responsibility.

Your point about Europeans no longer fighting each other proves my point- Palestinians don’t elicit the same sympathy as the Ukranians precisely because most of them are not white skinned, blonde hair and blue eyed Christians. You may feel that religion has no place in Europe anymore but when it comes to the rights of the Palestinians, the religious divisions are still in place. It seems like the life of 1000 Palestinians is worth one Europeans. You are entitled to your opinions as am I but I find it in bad taste that you come on a thread which is lamenting the terrible loss of a young Palestinian man burned to death with his family members and telling us that we should be outraged about children suffering in other conflicts. Bring aghast at the death of Shaban does not mean that we are blind to the death of others- it just means that he, like every other innocent killed in whatever country deserves to be remembered for his own sake.

Peace be to you- I have nothing more to say.

Like anybody who objects to the hypocritical hand-wringing doesn't care and has no compassion. My entire point was that nobody seemed to have any compassion for the very many other children dying all over the world throughout their lives, but now we have to listen to the virtue signalling

Frankly, you are accusing people you know nothing about of hypocrisy even after many posters have said we have done humanitarian work and/or donated to charities that are WORLDWIDE in the aid they provide as in they care about everyone in need on the ENTIRE PLANET. Neither of which is “virtue signalling”

Your “point” is just a scurrilous accusation with zero basis in truth. If you can’t post on here in good faith without engaging in personal attacks of calling people virtue signalling hand wringing hypocrites who have no compassion for other victims in other conflict zones then DFOD.

Yeah sure. I'm sure you've been expressing your deep concern about all of those other conflicts as well, for years and years, not just this particular one. Massive concern for all of the other suffering children, demanding our little country "do something" (unspecified) to make those other countries miraculously stop fighting each other and brutalising each other's citizens and their own. Of course you have.

Frankly, you are accusing people you know nothing about of hypocrisy even after many posters have said we have done humanitarian work and/or donated to charities that are WORLDWIDE in the aid they provide as in they care about everyone in need on the ENTIRE PLANET. Neither of which is “virtue signalling”

Your “point” is just a scurrilous accusation with zero basis in truth. If you can’t post on here in good faith without engaging in personal attacks of calling people virtue signalling hand wringing hypocrites who have no compassion for other victims in other conflict zones then DFOD.

I see. How very ironic! 🤣

Your reaction to the account of a famiy beng torn apart by war, a father trying desperately and being unable to save his children and wife from a fire as they burned to death in front of his eyes, and a child watching his brother and mother burn and then recognising his mother's body only by a bracelet on a charred wrist , is "Meh"...?

Out of respect and solidarity to this family who have been through such a tragedy, I will try to ignore the posts that are making light of their situation… even though it is so hard to keep silent in the face of such heartlessness. How wonderful it is to come across as so superior and so civilised but then to only be concerned about what actually happens on your own continent or to just simply say meh… wonderful indeed.

Well, if my 'nonsense' is offensive to you, the good news for you is that other threads are available. In fact, you can even block the entire board from appearing for you, so you don't have to read any of it, not even thread titles. HTH.

Over the last year there have been so many horrendous stories coming out of Gaza and each one seems worse than the one before ( I don’t mean this literally, every death is terrible and I’m not trying to say there is a hierarchy of suffering like some might)… it’s just that the stories don’t seem to stop and keep on coming.

I think of little Reem and her grandfather, Hind all alone in the car, the father who went to register the birth of his newborn twins and came back to find them dead, the teenager set on with a IDF and left for days dead in his house, the little boy held by his dad, with his head blown off- these stay with me and I try to remember them because sometimes it feels like the only thing I can do is to make sure they are not forgotten.

I remember a hospital whiteboard and the message written there: Remember Us.

I think it's important that we try to remember.

What do you think happened after WW2 with much land in Europe? Do you see us all still fighting over previous borders and launching rockets at each other?

Yeah all been peaceful here since WW2. Have you wiped the Bosnian war, Russia/ Ukraine, Chechyna, Northern Ireland, Basque region, Catalan from your memory? And Europes role in Iraq war, Afghanistan, Falklands

Cold War too, and what the USSR did to Poland, East Germany, Romania, Hungary, Bulgaria, Albania, Belarus, Latvia, Ukraine, Estonia, Moldova, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan, Lithuania, Turkmenistan, and Kazakhstan.

The Cyprus wars (Greece & Turkey)
The 3 Cod Wars (Britain and Iceland)
Greek coups
Macedonia insurgency
Annexation of the Crimea

Your fing government is selling the weapons and funding the genocide so maybe you should ask them to stop? Your taxes are going to burning people alive so how about you give one iota of a sht about it.

Well said

My response to the pp's question is above.

scirroco. I had already read your reply.

I wouldn't say the response is caused by apathy but by helplessness. It's a situation we have seen before and I'm sure we will see again in many parts of the world. The level of depravity that some humans are capable of never fails to horrify but I don't think there is much I can personally do (beyond donations to charity) to change it. I'm not rich and have full time work and caring responsibilities - what would you like me personally to do?

As you can see from the thread, many of the posters have been concerned about the children suffering in Africa, the concentration camps in China, human rights abuses and people in need around the world, and have a history of being actively involved in helping people in need. Therefore, I'm not sure what's "well said" about a post that accuses people of not having cared about these issues...?

As for what should the UK be doing, well, as a starting point, the UK may be a small island but it's also one of the biggest economies in the world and has influence internationally. It's also sending weapons that are being used in circumstances that are being investigated for reports of war crimes and even genocide. Maybe it could start by addressing how those roles could be used to help bring a resolution and mitigate harm.

We shouldn't disregard the suffering of innocent people just because of the miles between us. Innocent people like us are living in fear, suffering and dying, all around the world. We wouldn't want people to turn a blind eye if it were happening to us, so we shouldn't turn a blind eye when it's happening to someone else.

As I've previously said, there are things all of us can do to make a difference. A name on a petition, an act of kindness to another person, thinking about our spending decisions, even just seeing and remembering what has happened. It might not feel like a big thing, but all the little things add up.

Something people in these situations often say is that they (we) feel forgotten. The main thing I'd ask everyone - as someone with loved ones in Palestine, both alive and dead - is what so many people have asked before me, in similar situations: Remember us. Remember them. Please.

scirrico
I think many of us do these things already. I just don't think they make an impact, that's why I suggested it was helplessness rather than apathy. Plus I question why the situation in Congo for example gets less support. Both are awful situations. I do think it's because of Isreal being involved.

In this particular situation it doesn't help that both sides have committed atrocities so I wouldn't support either side politically.

So I question your use of the word 'apathy' as I don't think it's apathy.

It angers me to know there are people who refuse to see Palestinians as humans. They don't matter to them. They may say that it is terrible what is happening; there is always a "but" following that statement.

You appear to conflate being a Muslim and being an Islamist. Two different things.
I am an atheist myself, by the way. No religion is, inherently, bad. It is the interpretation of it by men with an agenda that has and still does corrupt it.
If being religious ( not extremist) provides people with guidance and comfort, who are you to deny them this? I find this attitude deeply intolerant.

I will definitely remember the innocent individuals like Sha’aban and Hind whose names are known to us and whose suffering has come to represent the suffering of their whole community.