Hamas leader Sinwar dead

[Toomanywars]

Reported just on Sky

@EasterIssland We’ve been told time after time that he was underground having the best live whilst Palestinians were dying and that’s why it was needed so strong bombs to be thrown as hamas was hiding in tunnels. And it’s not been the reality. This at least is not the reality of his last day.

Exactly. If it's a PR fail, it's a massive fail as it doesn't work in their favour. So whatever lies they've been telling us, we can see this is not entirely true and the need for heavy bombing isn't the right course of action.

I think you've completely misunderstood the complexity of this war.

Why is it a PR fail to show Sinwar? For a start, the main reason to show the pictures would be so that people actually believe he was killed. He was such a secret fugitive that rumours he had died circulated before, simply because he wasn't in touch with anyone. It would have been very easy to deny he was missing for a significant time.

I know that Arabic twitter is attempting to laud him as a hero, but I would actually think that it's pretty embarrassing for Hamas that the mighty Sinwar died alone, and especially in possession of fake ID (taken from an UNRWA teacher who has been in Egypt for months), 40,000 shekels, and a packet of Mentos. I would be absolutely furious if my kids were starving and here was the person who had failed to protect me, with fake ID, sweets, a protective vest and unlimited cash. It's ironic that his death was so insignificant that the soldiers didn't even check his identity until the following day. He didn't even fall to some top commando unit - according to Israeli news reports the relevant shot was fired by a new recruit who hadn't even begun their military service on 7/10/23.

But above all it's a colossal strategic asset and PR win for Netanyahu. He has the 'victory' photo that will possibly serve as an off-ramp from the war if the international community plays its cards right. It's hard to imagine any other goal for the IDF in Gaza other than returning the hostages. Sinwar's body may serve as a bargaining chip for the bodies of soldiers held by Hamas. Hezbollah is on a back foot after losing its leadership. Iran is waiting for Israel's response. This is a very significant opportunity to negotiate an end to the war.

Well said israelilefty

Absolutely agree that the death of Sinwar was nothing but a positive, I don't think anyone is denying that. I also agree that his body needed to be shown as proof, just like Sadam Hussein's capture needed to be seen. I guess people are now querying whether the tactics that were used in Gaza, which have contributed to the huge death toll amongst the civilian population especially children, was warranted. I think it would be remiss of anyone not to question and interrogate this.

@SharonEllis thanks for the kind words. My stepmother was forever thankful for her opportunities in England. She (together with my father serving in the armed forces) moved to Germany with the possibility of staying there in the late 80s, but she was not happy.

In the years before her passing, we did get to visit her original home area (their house is still standing, now subdivided into 3 appts) in southern Poland. She spoke some Polish, and I won't say any more other than it was not a pleasant trip.

I agree with you on most of the things. But agree with @anotherlevel , I just can’t justify the bombings that are going on in Gaza. We were told time after time sinwar was in tunnels hence the weapons that had to be used. So many innocent lives have been taken away because we’ve made to believe that they were hidden in tunnels. And the reality is far from that. Sinwar has died alone in a building.

agree with you that now it’s a perfect time to end the war (tho it always was as I can’t bare the thought of more innocent lives being taken away). Nentanhayu has got the victories that always wanted (leaders of hezbollah and hamas). It’s time to sit down and negotiate the return of the hostages and a ceasefire

Sadly, in Al Jazerra, the reporter based in Gaza says that people of Gaza are sad at Sinwar's death and thought he was a great leader! Good grief, if a great leader launches a terrorist attack which leads to a conflict where so many innocents die. Then then hides in tunnels before being killed in a gunfight whilst continuing to keep hostages and keep the conflict going whilst women and children die. If that is a great leader standard and people are sad then there seems little hope of selecting someone better. Someone who might have a long term view of peace to benefit all people.

Lets hope so. Someone from Chatham House on Newsnight last night was also pretty positive about the impetus to take this opportunity to broker a deal.

The question here was about the PR value of showing Sinwar's body, not about the bombings.

I'm not a munitions or strategy expert so I can't comment on tunnel warfare, but
there is ample evidence that Sinwar was in tunnel locations. There was footage of him filmed in a tunnel at the beginning of the war. Sinwar's DNA was found in the tunnel complex where the 6 hostages were executed on August 29, and he died in the same area of Gaza.

There is no evidence that the home into which Sinwar ran when the incident began was where he had been hiding. Rather the suggestion based on where he was and what he was carrying is that he had taken the risk of leaving the tunnels to move to north Gaza which would be safer as the IDF had destroyed most of the tunnels in Rafah and was closing in on him.

So I don't think that much can specifically be concluded from Sinwar's death about the general approach to Hamas tunnels.

That, sadly was also my impression reading Arabic Twitter posts yesterday.

A pp mentioned a PR fail I don’t think it’s that. The opposite really

I’m not sure what will happen next, I’ve been listening to reporting today (world service)

There is certainly impetus for a deal, and literally the first thing that was published in Israel after the confirmation of Sinwar's death was an invitation to anyone holding hostages to give them up and they would be spared (obviously this is an offer that will need to be made via an intermediary like Qatar) - hoping that at least some captors would take the opportunity to grab the cash and be located to a 3rd country. This would also be a HUGE win for Netanyahu, as the Hebrew calendar anniversary of the Oct 7 attacks is about to come up next week. The release of hostages would be an unbelievable uplift to the national mood meeting that anniversary.

The fear in Israel ls that if a deal is not immediately released, hostages may simply be lost, like Ron Arad, an Israeli airman held by Lebanon for 38 years, and it's believed that nobody (including in Hezbollah and Iran) actually knows for certain what happened to his remains.

Deradicalisation is never an instant process. The majority of Gazans were educated under Hamas which included explicitly racist aspects of the curriculum, paramilitary training camps for children and the widespread celebration of terrorists. It will might take a while to replace the indoctrination and hatred, but that doesn't mean it won't be successful in the longterm. People are successfully deprogrammed after leaving cults and this probably easier than that.

The hostages need to be released along with anyone else being held in Gaza - a trafficked Yazidi woman was recently freed. She was taken by ISIL as an 11 year old and later trafficked into Gaza. Israel killed her captor and she managed to contact people to help get her home. There may well be more women and girls trapped there.

This sums it up well, there is not going to be only one view on this matter. In regards to arabic twitter, I have no idea as I hardly even go on twitter. To accuse others of being terrorist sympathisers because they have a different perception on how something is viewed is just crass.

I have no idea what you all have been reading on Arabic or any other twitter pages but if you are interested in what MSM in the UK has to say then you can read this

news.sky.com/story/how-reaction-to-video-of-yahya-sinwars-final-moments-reflects-the-complexities-of-the-middle-east-13235797

Exactly this.

And if you want to have a go at people about amplifying terrorist propaganda/sympathy etc etc for simply discussing different views that have been expressed, then go have a word with sky news @Hunglikeapolevaulter

I never rely on any British MSM nor X/Twitter. We are able to access European news channels as well as i24. I also find israelilefty most informative.

But Israel isn't using 7/10 as it's primary reason for the ongoing genocide in Gaza, or the Ethnic Cleansing in the West Bank or the invasion of Lebanon.

Israel apologists continually attempt to reset the clock. 7/10 was abhorrent as was Sinwar but the ongoing Israeli response is beyond any kind of justification.

Overall best to be open about it
Shame that Netanyahu does not allow for the international press to witness what is happening in Gaza. Why do you think that is?

Sky news has form actually.

@LetThereBeLove that's fine, it's the accusation of spreading propaganda from twitter from poster who constantly posts from twitter sources that is annoying.

I'm not in the least bit surprised you think so Sharon. A very predictable response from you.

Wasn’t your post indicating the same thing?