Hamas leader Sinwar dead

[Toomanywars]

Reported just on Sky

When the US caught Osama bin Laden they made a point of not showing his body.

I am confident when Hamas stop slaughtering them, and end the violence they started then Isreal will have no need to defend themselves.

What slaughter has been inflicted on Israel which is in any w as y whatsoever comparable with the death of 42,000 people?

Please name one.

Should have @Whatsinanamehey
I thought that too. Massive PR fail showing Sinwar fighting to his last breath and Israel not even knowing they had killed him. It's obvious how that can be spun.

It was extremely stupid of Israel to release his last moments though. Another spectacular PR fail. All this time they have been telling the world and the Palestinians that Sinwar is using them as human shields and he hides in comfort underground with hostages as shields too whilst they suffer on top. His final moments show him as a fighter for the Palestinians. Why did they show it? Doesn't anybody in the PR team discuss and approve things before they broadcast such footage? Didn't anyone consider the implicatiojs of releasing the footage before they did? I did wonder this last night and saw this morning that many news outlets and political commentators have picked up on the same points.

See, I've been seeing this same message posted in the same or very similar wording all over X, and I'm curious as to why you'd want to amplify what is clearly terrorist propaganda, given that evidence, such as false IDs, point to him attempting to flee the area.

The Israelis would be critisised whatever they do, in any case. Had they not released the footage they'd be accused of lying and cover ups. Overall best to be open about it, terrorist supporters are always going to spin it anyway.

I thought that too. Massive PR fail showing Sinwar fighting to his last breath and Israel not even knowing they had killed him. It's obvious how that can be spun.

You could also spin it that having boots on the ground in Rafah is what lead to his elimination, and that he was taken out by a 19 year old gay guy with a penchant for dancing on tiktok.

We’ve been told time after time that he was underground having the best live whilst Palestinians were dying and that’s why it was needed so strong bombs to be thrown as hamas was hiding in tunnels. And it’s not been the reality. This at least is not the reality of his last day.

"Had they not released the footage they'd be accused of lying and cover ups. Overall best to be open about it, terrorist supporters are always going to spin it anyway."

If only they applied that to everything.

We’ve been told time after time that he was underground having the best live whilst Palestinians were dying and that’s why it was needed so strong bombs to be thrown as hamas was hiding in tunnels. And it’s not been the reality. This at least is not the reality of his last day.

He was hiding underground in tunnels though, using the group of hostages that included Hersch as human shields. When their condition became too poor, he had them killed and as Israel closed in he attempted to flee.
So yes he did take great pains to keep himself safe while civilians died. He just failed at it in the end.

I'm actually finding today's tone quite funny. Yesterday there was a bit of a stunned silence on social media, and today there's all remarkably similar copium posts.

And without lying (not saying about this but about many things they’ve lied about in the past)

Did this really start on 7/10?

What an extraordinary discussion. As ever Israel can't do right for doing wrong. Do people not think that over 12 months Sinwar might move around, that Hamas commanders might at times be more operational than others. That the concept of a human shield is not literally a phalanx of people standing permanently shield-like around the person they are protecting. Noone suggested Hamas commanders IN Gaza were living their best lives - the one in Qatar are obviously the ones getting a bit more benefit from their wealth. Why so weird that soldiers would be pursuing Hamas fighters and discover one of them is Sinwar. Its really not the gotcha some people seem to think it is.

@SharonEllis Nobody thinks it's a "gotcha" . It's just a discussion.

Let's tally up the deaths of Palestinians before Hamas even existed and it might lead us to believe that Israel have intended death and destruction from the beginning.

Yup,

Whilst I have criticised Israel in many ways for their conduct since 7/10 (and before), the killing of Sinwar, just like Nasrallah, was a good thing for Israel, the West and, ultimately, the Palestinians themselves.

Although a bright and, in some ways principled man, he had ultimately forgotten any distinction between civilians and soldiers and was a cold blooded terrorist.

The other thing I can’t stand is this idea of Israel killing more civilians, so being somehow worse than the terrorists they are fighting, If you choose to fight an asymmetric war and use civilians as human shields, it is you that is responsible for a high civilian death toll.

Having said that, Israel need a clear war aim in Gaza and a plan for the post war settlement that is acceptable to the Palestinians (not Hamas, Hezbollah or Iran) and the rest of the Middle East.

And, as I always say, Netanyahu and his Jewish theocratic supporters need to go.

But killing Sinwar should be a cause for unbridled celebration.

It definitely comes across that way.

Overall no. This last year of conflict - absolutely yes.

@Newbutoldfather I agree with a lot you've written except of course that Israel bears no responsibility for the high civilian death toll and linked to that of course is their Dahiya Doctrine which I don't agree with either.
I think people will have felt optimist that Sinwar's death might change the direction of Israel's Govt but clearly it isn't and we are getting headlines like this
10 Likud MKs to participate in conference next week near Sderot calling to 'resettle Gaza' | The Times of Israel

Yeah see that annoys me.

EVERY life is precious. It isn’t a numbers game. And frankly just because Israel had the iron dome doesn’t mean they weren’t being bombarded before.

You forgot to mention the part about Hamas wanting to wipe Israel off the face of the planet.

i don’t support either side because both are wrong and have done atrocious things. It’s the one sided linear hardline view I struggle with.

And for reference before Hamas it was the Palestinian Liberation Army so the names and tactics change but this isn’t a new thing.

This will be a big test for Netanyahu, almost all the allies including the US and Germany are calling on him to let this be the pivotal moment to end the war and bring home the hostages. Let the next steps be a diplomatic move.

Absolutely. I suspect a lot of people just don't know and it wasn't part of their history curriculum.
Incidentally Dresden, where my mother was born, was bombed to bits with thousands of casualties by the allies towards the end of the war and never termed a genocide (as it wasn't) just as today's war isn't either.

That must be a painful history. But as you say not every devastating conflict is a genocide.

My stepmother was one those Germans forcibly relocated after WWII. Her family is mentioned in this book: Orderly and Humane: The Expulsion of the Germans After the Second World War https://www.amazon.co.uk/Orderly-Humane-Expulsion-Germans-Second/dp/0300198205

They moved to near Munich initially, but it was very difficult there, and a few years later they very happily moved to England. She had extended family that managed to stay in Poland for a few years, but in the end they too were forced out too by the incomers, i.e., very similar to what we see unfolding in the West Bank

... to follow up ... i.e., very similar to what we see unfolding in the West Bank ... not genocide, but "just" state sponsored ethnic cleansing.

Thank you for the reference.I'm glad she found a happy home here.