Hamas leader Sinwar dead

[Toomanywars]

Reported just on Sky

The comments on BBC’s Instagram page are terrifying.

He’s worshipped by so many as a hero.

I said the same thing before that Israel releasing the footage of his last moments was a huge PR fail. They should not have done that for this specific reason. Was he glorified before his death? Yes. But for a long time even staunch supporters were angry that he was hiding in the tunnels. The footage of his last moments is now depicted as a final act of defiance against Israel. People don't like to hear this on mumsnet, but it IS how he is seen. Not only amongst Palestinians but by so many others too. As said, go read BBC or sky or any other mainstream UK news site and you will see the same.

If you want to stay in la la land and get angry at posters who point out what's being said and how things are perceived by so many in the world outside mumsnet, then that's up to you. It's not going to change the reality of the matter.

Not angry at support for him by clueless westerners with nothing to lose, just hoping that those actually on the ground who want peaceful coexistence overcome those who don't.

I can’t see that as a reason for him to continue

People believe what they want to believe.

Maybe it is very important for some of the people in Gaza that see him this way to believe that somebody cares and that somebody is fighting for them? Because often it appears that they have been forgotten, and it is painful to be forgotten.

And that there is some significance and dignity in death? Seeing it as a final act of defiance in the face of cruelty and control.

It is easy to create a narrative out of moments, picking the ones that stick most in your mind or are consistent with your view, and ignoring everything in-between. And when you are desperate and have been forgotten, it is a short term survival tool, that enables you to go on. Perhaps many of these people are ordinary people who are trying to survive, who given different circumstances, wouldn’t see things this way. Maybe they don’t support his terror, it is more that they are blinded to some of his actions.

I'm very very very confused. I don't know if we're reading the same posts? I asked if hamas would stop bombing innocent Israeli citizens and release Israeli hostages and that's me excusing the killing of Palestinians...riiiiighhhhhht👍

Another poster, clearly referring to innocent people in Palestine· 17/10/2024 20:29
You justify the killing of civilians.

Fairy0708 · 17/10/2024 20:38
Why would I justify the killing of Israeli civilians?

@Fairy0708 you may not intend it, I don't know, but that sort of thing comes across as someone not caring about the innocent people dying in Palestine. It's a commonly encountered thing, including on this forum. If you actually do care about Palestinians being killed, tortured, starved, maimed and traumatised by Israeli forces (who have a choice in whether or not to do these things), that's great - it's not how things have come across though.

@Whatsinanamehey Not exactly sure why my earlier post was deleted.There was an image from the ABC, the Australian Public broadcaster of a teenager throwing a stone at a tank. Stone throwing is a kind of cultural meme to show defiance in the face of Israeli oppression. So to show Sinwar firing a missile with his remaining hand was a short term propaganda gain. Maybe someone thought pointing this out was propaganda in itself?
I think I may have used the term armed resistance so maybe that caused offence because someone may have thought I included the 7/10 terror attack as the latter.
It might be because the comparisons to WW2 were rejected . Israeli lives are worth more than normal lives on this site. I don’t equate destruction of Gaza with Dresden.
Gaza- 42,000 deaths Israel- about 1500, most on 7/10.
Dresden- the final death toll was 25,000 after Germany had probably killed about 11 million

@Kindatired Have you tried emailing MN?

The Israeli military has the "Hannibal directive" in place. What does that say about their attitude towards their own people?

I wouldn't worry about the deletion @Kindatired MN moderation makes no sense whatsoever

The same poster:

Circumferences · 17/10/2024 14:26
Will Israel stop killing innocent civilians now

....

So going by your notion are you therefore saying that the above poster is justifying the killing of innocent Israelis? It's interesting you have pulled out my comments but not theirs? Hmm....

That is just a face. No name on the cover.

His name is Mosab Hassan Yousef , apparently his father is a founder member of hamas but he has very vocally rejected their ideology.

His name is Mosab Hassan Yousef.

The poster asked a question about Israeli killing of innocent civilians. Your answer came across as a dismissal of the killing of innocent civilians by seemingly deliberately deflecting away from the Palestinian civilians who were clearly central to the question being asked.

You then later asked for an example of why people might be under the impression that you don't care much about the lives of Palestinian civilians.

Maybe you do care. If so, you might want to adjust some of the language in your posts, as they don't come across as very concerned for the innocent people dying in Palestine.

If the other poster wants people to critique their posts, they're welcome to ask people for feedback, just like anyone can.

Innocent people are being killed and hurt by the IDF in Palestine and Lebanon. Innocent people were also killed and hurt in Israel on October 7th and continue to be killed and hurt now. It is possible to care about all the innocent people suffering. A lot of people don't, though, and instead use dehumanising and prejudiced thought processes to dismiss the pain and suffering being inflicted upon Palestinians and Lebanese people.

I don't recall asking for feedback on my post. I think you're clearly misreading...

Anyhoo... This thread is discussing the death of the leader of hamas, a terrorist organisation, with the sole purpose of destroying Israel, and the other poster's response to this was to ask if Israel would stop killing civilians now. I think you're reading between the lines of the wrong post my dear...🤔

.

While I think it's unlikely that Israeli forces will stop killing innocent people any time soon, maybe the other poster had a bit more faith than I do in the ability of the Israeli government to rein itself in a bit after killing him.

And I believe it's highly unlikely Hamas will stop killing innocent Israelis (including babies) anytime soon.

In general terms I would agree it's unlikely that Hamas will stop by themselves either. Looking at the men pushing this violence forwards on both sides of the conflict, there's little hope of them independently recognising that their hatred is not more important than the lives of the innocent people in Palestine, Lebanon and Israel. The international community needs to be more proactive in getting both sides to agree a ceasefire and peace process, so that innocent people stop being killed and injured, the hostages can go home, and we can try to have a path that leads to stability and heaing.

Thank you. He's the guy I watched the other day speaking at a conference. Should put his name on the cover really.