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Conflict in the Middle East

"A Warning: Israel Will Have No Defense When It Is Charged With Crimes Against the Palestinians" Former PM Ehud Olmert

202 replies

AhNowTed · 12/07/2024 17:25

I realise a lot of folks can't access links, so the text is faithfully copied.

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2024-07-12/ty-article/.premium/a-warning-israel-will-have-no-defense-when-charged-with-crimes-against-the-palestinians/00000190-a32e-ddf1-abb6-efef44fd0000

Former PM Ehud Olmert

A Warning: Israel Will Have No Defense When It Is Charged With Crimes Against the Palestinians

Arrest warrants will be issued against Israel's political leaders and military commanders – but it is the State of Israel itself that will be put on trial in the end

Almost every day I watch an interview on television with a relative of one of the fallen "wearers of knitted-kippot." Yes, "wearers of knitted-kippot" is the most precise description for these members of the religious Zionist community. Not settlers, not messianists, not annexationists. Heroes. No group in Israel exhibits greater determination, sacrifice, identification, courage and a willingness for combat than they do.

There are others like them – non-religious soldiers from moshavim and kibbutzim; city people from Tel Aviv, Netanya, Herzliya, Haifa, Be'er Sheva and other cities; and those from the periphery, from Kiryat Shmona to Eilat – but none more than them. The number of fallen soldiers among the religious Zionist community well exceeds their percentage among the general population.

We can't ignore this fact, and we mustn't obscure or devalue it. The military is fighting with amazing daring, courage and sacrifice, in part because of the contribution of these soldiers, and those like them. When we speak about togetherness, national unity and solidarity – I'm with them. On the battlefield, the unity exists and strengthens them.

But sometimes when I hear these relatives of the fallen and those abducted – some of them, but not all – my heart breaks and the feeling of unity cracks. Many of them don't want a hostage deal. Their children are hostages and every day they could well pay with their lives. Their fate is unclear, their sanity and psychological resilience are being put to a harsh test, but they think the need for total victory, destruction of Hamas and the destruction of Gaza – along with the unavoidable deaths of many of the hostages, and necessarily also the death of Palestinians who have no connection to Hamas terrorism and may even be its victims as well – stands at the top of the list of priorities. I don't feel unity with this approach.

None of them say it explicitly, but I get the impression that the public figures from the believing, settler community that yearns to settle Gaza and Lebanonand are able to contend with the danger of death to their children – when they are standing with admirable, but also revulsive, determination in their demands to continue the fighting and total victory, they will not have any difficulty containing the burning of Palestinian communities and property of completely innocent Palestinians.

Many of them justify the continuation of the fighting in Gaza and call to expand the fighting in the north, so they can continue the work of destruction and obliteration in the West Bank. All of this on the way to fulfill the greater dream of liberating parts of the Land of Israel and expelling Palestinians, in advance of annexation of all the territories and turning Israel into an apartheid state that will be boycotted and ostracized by the entire world.

This is the dream of thousands of settlers, young people called "hilltop youth" and many others who support them, push them, cover up for them and hide them. Many of the local leaders in Judea and Samaria pay lip service and are filled with self-righteousness. They ignore the data published by the reliable investigative press (for example, Ronen Bergman and staff of The New York Times) and UN agencies, U.S. State Department and the U.S. National Security Council. "It's not that bad," they say. "Exaggerated," and "no foundation for the accusations."

There is a basis. I believe the words of the outgoing head of the IDF Central Command, Maj. Gen. Yehuda Fuchs, a brave soldier, an admirable commander, when he speaks with candor and openness about what his eyes saw in the occupied territories at our hands. He is not delusional and has not invented anything. He saw, his soldiers saw. And everyone knows about the reports on the settlers – not all of them, maybe not even the majority, but a very impressive number of them – who attack, loot, destroy, ruin, burn and kill innocent people – and also attack Israeli soldiers who are unwilling to lend a hand to their crimes.

Often present at the riots in these places are officers from the Border Police. I know many of their commanders in the past and present. They are among the most courageous, determined and daring of Israel's soldiers. But it is impossible to blur the facts that many of them close one eye, and sometimes even two, when criminal acts by Jewish rioters are taking place right next to them. How many of these rioters are arrested? How many of them are put on trial? How many of them are punished according to the severity of their actions? A marginal number. Almost certainly less than the number of protesters thrown to the ground, beaten and humiliated by Ben-Gvir's police officers.

None of this could have happened without the inspiration, back up and support given by the country's most senior leaders. First and foremost, Itamar Ben-Gvir, the minister of TikTok, who controls the government like a violent bully. And along with him, Bezalel Smotrich, the minister for the territories in the Defense Ministry. Smotrich and Ben-Gvir support the settling of the Gaza Strip and Southern Lebanon by Jewish settlers. In the near future a halakhic authority will be found who will locate in the ancient writings the verse or two that will prove Southern Lebanon has always been part of our holy and historic homeland; and from here it is just a short road to a mass settler movement led by Daniella Weiss.

For this delusional goal they are encouraging an all-out war in the north, which is unnecessary and unjustified. Instead, we need to reach an agreement with the Lebanese government, to agree to minor border adjustments, which do not harm any historic Jewish property, and constitute no real security threat to Israel; and to bring about a withdrawal of Hezbollah forces dozens of kilometers from the Israeli border near the Litani River, as we did in practice after the Second Lebanon War. And the most important thing: We must return the residents of the north to their homes and rebuild their communities.

This government wants a war in the north to advance its great dream – a war of everyone against everyone, mutual destruction, expulsion of Palestinians and annexing the territories to Israel.

Given all this, I am warning you:

I am warning Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu: The day is drawing near when arrest warrants will be issued against you for the crimes being carried out every day in Judea and Samaria by Israel, with the support of its government, while you intentionally turn a blind eye to it. The events in Gaza can be defended, because it's possible to claim they are not a result of policy, order or intention by Israel, not even by you. In the worst case, as we all know, you are not really managing, leading or directing. After all, you're not responsible for anything.

But these arguments won't be available to you concerning events in Judea and Samaria. Here crimes are committed on a daily basis, not by soldiers and not against soldiers, but by rioters who are Israeli citizens, Arab haters, with the clear intention of expelling them from their homes and the villages where they have lived all their lives.

As prime minister, you know about all these events. If you choose to ignore them too, you won't be able to deny you heard the warning of the head of the Central Command and other senior IDF commanders. I have spoken with a few of them and they are ashamed that these things are happening in areas under our control.

When these accusations are made against you, Mr. Prime Minister, not a single person with a conscience will be found among us, or in the international arena that supports us, who will be able to defend you.

I am also warning Defense Minister Yoav Gallant, for whom there will also be an arrest warrant. He is responsible for security, he can act and struggle against the reckless policies of Netanyahu and Smotrich, who is in charge of the territories in the Defense Ministry. Gallant prefers to be addicted to the continuation of the war in Gaza, to the warnings and threats of Hezbollah, and closes his eyes to what is happening in the territories under his responsibility.

I am warning Ben-Gvir, the minister of threats, incitement and supporting the hilltop youth – you won't avoid arrest warrants. Given the incitement, division and bullying that you unleash against the army commanders and specifically the chief of staff, the Shin Bet chief and Mossad warriors, you deserve arrest warrants from the attorney general. But even if she won't do it, you'll get arrest warrants from the International Criminal Court for the responsibility you bear and of which you are even proud.

I am warning Smotrich, who is actively extending the war and blocking negotiations for a hostage-release deal, encourages settling Gaza, inspires the hilltop youth, and supports Jewish settlement in southern Lebanon and total war in the north, the expected result of which will be the destruction and death of thousands of citizens among us and among them. Arrest warrants await you, too.

I am warning the police, Border Police and army commanders. You won't be able to shirk responsibility for the crimes being committed against the Palestinians in the territories. Arrest warrants will also be issued against you, and you'll have no real response.

Indeed, arrest warrants will be issued against the prime minister, leaders, cabinet ministers and commanders personally – but it is the State of Israel that will be tried in the end. All this at a time when Israel wants to end the war, return the hostages, withdraw from Gaza, bring in an international force, Arab or European, that will preserve the gains from the war that will prevent Hamas from rehabilitating and returning to power in Gaza. Israel wants to launch negotiations with the Palestinians over a peace deal between them and us, and the establishment of a nonmilitarized Palestinian state as part of a regional agreement that will create a stable, strong and reliable axis. Israel, Palestine, Egypt, Jordan, Bahrain, the UAE, Saudi Arabia and the United States would form the base of and stand as the backbone of regional security against Iran.

I issue this warning because if we continue to reconcile with crimes against the Palestinians in Judea and Samaria, serious and painful sanctions will be levied against Israel, and we won't have a good defense.

A warning: Israel will have no defense when charged with crimes against the Palestinians

***

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2024-07-12/ty-article/.premium/a-warning-israel-will-have-no-defense-when-charged-with-crimes-against-the-palestinians/00000190-a32e-ddf1-abb6-efef44fd0000

OP posts:
SingleDadReally · 12/07/2024 17:29

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SharonEllis · 12/07/2024 17:56

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It is not a settler colonialist project. Whatever its faults, it is not that. Jews are indigenous to the region. Where do you suggest the Jews 'go home' to? Please tell us, where should each group of Jews who made their home in Israel go back to?

SingleDadReally · 12/07/2024 18:08

Some of the Israeli Jewish population is indigenous but lots are 1st or 2nd generation immigrants, mainly of European descent-that’s why it’s legally difficult to have your DNA checked in Israel. Obviously the successive waves of Palestinians who’ve been ethnically cleansed by Israel have no right of return to their lands whereas people with one Jewish grandparent have the right to move there-completely illogical and wrong. Israel is probably in its last decade of existence. The US population have already decided its more trouble than its worth. Once that’s translated into congress and the Presidency the protection that Israel has from reality will end.

SharonEllis · 12/07/2024 19:03

SingleDadReally · 12/07/2024 18:08

Some of the Israeli Jewish population is indigenous but lots are 1st or 2nd generation immigrants, mainly of European descent-that’s why it’s legally difficult to have your DNA checked in Israel. Obviously the successive waves of Palestinians who’ve been ethnically cleansed by Israel have no right of return to their lands whereas people with one Jewish grandparent have the right to move there-completely illogical and wrong. Israel is probably in its last decade of existence. The US population have already decided its more trouble than its worth. Once that’s translated into congress and the Presidency the protection that Israel has from reality will end.

Judaism is indigenous to the Holy Land. For rather obvious reasons Jews ended up in many other parts of the world.

This does not change the fact that Judaism is indigenous to the region.

Please tell is where the different groups of Jews in Israel should go 'back' to If they are, once again, forced to leave Israel.

WatTyler · 12/07/2024 19:10

More Hamas propaganda, trying to encourage international pressure on Israel to surrender to a gang of genocidal rapists. Most unlikely Israel will ever be 'charged' with anything and if they are, they will ignore it.

Israel must continue its work of completely eradicating Hamas.

AhNowTed · 12/07/2024 19:20

WatTyler · 12/07/2024 19:10

More Hamas propaganda, trying to encourage international pressure on Israel to surrender to a gang of genocidal rapists. Most unlikely Israel will ever be 'charged' with anything and if they are, they will ignore it.

Israel must continue its work of completely eradicating Hamas.

The article is by former Israeli PM.

Did you even read it?

It's about the treatment of Palestinians in the West Bank.

By a former PM.

Or did you just come across a post without even bothering to read the content, and claim Hamas propaganda.

OP posts:
SharonEllis · 12/07/2024 19:21

Ah you're back @AhNowTed. Please answer my question.

LiterallyOnFire · 12/07/2024 19:23

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Surely nobody is quite that stupid.

If it were that simple, it would all have been resolved decades ago.

There were Jews in Israel long before it was Israel.

AhNowTed · 12/07/2024 19:30

SharonEllis · 12/07/2024 19:21

Ah you're back @AhNowTed. Please answer my question.

Sorry, what question?

OP posts:
Parkingt111 · 12/07/2024 19:30

WatTyler · 12/07/2024 19:10

More Hamas propaganda, trying to encourage international pressure on Israel to surrender to a gang of genocidal rapists. Most unlikely Israel will ever be 'charged' with anything and if they are, they will ignore it.

Israel must continue its work of completely eradicating Hamas.

Are you saying that Ehud Olmert's interview is Hamas propaganda??
If so, I hope you realise how ridiculous that is.
I think it's a great interview, sometimes harsh truths need to be told.

Scirocco · 12/07/2024 19:31

WatTyler · 12/07/2024 19:10

More Hamas propaganda, trying to encourage international pressure on Israel to surrender to a gang of genocidal rapists. Most unlikely Israel will ever be 'charged' with anything and if they are, they will ignore it.

Israel must continue its work of completely eradicating Hamas.

The former Prime Minister of Israel? Writing Hamas propaganda? Seriously?

There are many criticisms that can be levelled at him, but that's a new one.

SharonEllis · 12/07/2024 19:31

AhNowTed · 12/07/2024 19:30

Sorry, what question?

Apologies. Obviously I was talking to @SingleDadReally

Parkingt111 · 12/07/2024 19:34

Scirocco · 12/07/2024 19:31

The former Prime Minister of Israel? Writing Hamas propaganda? Seriously?

There are many criticisms that can be levelled at him, but that's a new one.

According to some posters, any criticism against Israel is Hamas propaganda. As if they can do absolutely no wrong.

VittuunterroristitFuckterrorists · 12/07/2024 19:51

LiterallyOnFire · 12/07/2024 19:23

Surely nobody is quite that stupid.

If it were that simple, it would all have been resolved decades ago.

There were Jews in Israel long before it was Israel.

Oh they are. Have you seen the twitter accounts and hate sites that certain posters like to spam? There are a lot of people openly believe that racist shite.

LiterallyOnFire · 12/07/2024 20:09

Oh they are. Have you seen the twitter accounts and hate sites that certain posters like to spam? There are a lot of people openly believe that racist shite.

I've seen a thread entirely consisting of haranguing walls of text and links to unverified photos of body parts, if that's what you mean? I'd been doing quite well steering clear, though.

Intelligent debate and verified facts are easy to avoid if you're just a closet anti-Semite intent on causing trouble, I guess.

Finallyloggedin · 12/07/2024 20:11

Thanks for the article, @AhNowTed , I’m glad the former pm is using his voice to shine a light on some of the atrocities being committed against the Palestinians.

SharonEllis · 12/07/2024 20:13

LiterallyOnFire · 12/07/2024 20:09

Oh they are. Have you seen the twitter accounts and hate sites that certain posters like to spam? There are a lot of people openly believe that racist shite.

I've seen a thread entirely consisting of haranguing walls of text and links to unverified photos of body parts, if that's what you mean? I'd been doing quite well steering clear, though.

Intelligent debate and verified facts are easy to avoid if you're just a closet anti-Semite intent on causing trouble, I guess.

That person is certainly not in the closet. Openly rationalising and justifying the destruction of the state of Israel because Israeli Jews are not indigenous to the region.

LiterallyOnFire · 12/07/2024 20:22

The thing is nobody except Hamas wanted this war. I don't know anyone who is happy about it. But to read this board, you'd think Nazi Germany was being rerun with different players.

It's really unpleasant to see the kinds of people who are crawling out of the woodwork to grind their axes off the back of the tragedy, and a great shame there isn't anywhere where the discussion is intelligent.

LiterallyOnFire · 12/07/2024 20:23

Anyhow. I'm going to make another attempt to hide the board.

Good luck to those of you who aren't anti-Semitic.

Limesodaagain · 12/07/2024 20:26

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Comments like this make me despair. 🙄

SharonEllis · 12/07/2024 20:27

Its amazing how many people are looking the other way on this thread. Are you so desensitized that you don't see the antisemitism or do you support it?

SingleDadReally · 12/07/2024 20:28

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Dulra · 12/07/2024 20:32

SharonEllis · 12/07/2024 20:27

Its amazing how many people are looking the other way on this thread. Are you so desensitized that you don't see the antisemitism or do you support it?

Who is looking the other way?
Report the antisemitic posts and get them deleted. But you and @LiterallyOnFire seem to be calling everyone on these threads antisemitic and not worth bothering with so it is hard to know who exactly you are referring to. It is best to report and get their posts deleted.

AhNowTed · 12/07/2024 20:33

Anything to say on the actual content of the article?

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LiterallyOnFire · 12/07/2024 20:36

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You have to be fucking kidding me.

ZIONISM "ideology that doesn’t believe in equal and universal human rights"?

That's how you've picked a side?

Please do tell us about radical political Islamist support for equal and universal rights. Please. I'll hang on to my hernia.