Boycotting Israeli products/services

[the7Vabo]

I’m trying my best to support the boycott. For those doing the same - what products/services are you using instead?

The hardest one for me has been giving up on going to Disney Paris next year. I had planned it as a joint birthday present, kids will be the perfect age. But I can’t stand in Disney with my kids knowing they support a regime killing kids.

Any good alternatives to Disney, or any other brand on the list?

100% on both points.

I think the South Africa boycotts were much more extensive.

Assume what you want...

Sigh

It’s not unreasonable or insane, as long as a) you don’t try to deny that they’re fighting against terrorists, which was the original sentence, and b) you're consistent and do the same against every other country in the world acting in a way that’s against your values. God knows there are enough violent, murderous, racist, homophobic, misogynistic countries out there.

The problem arises when people ignore all the others and just signal their virtue by focusing on punishing one tiny country, the only majority Jewish country in the world.

And please don’t start shouting "Whataboutery!" How, other than by talking about other countries, is it possible to point out hypocrisy and double standards?

Hamas are a proscribed terrorist organisation in my country and many others, and carried out a horrific terrorist attack. I don't think many people would have an issue with a response to that. The issue comes when the response is actually disproportionately directed against a civilian population who are not responsible for the actions of those terrorists. The majority of the 'fighting' going on is, in reality, the killing of civilians, including women, elderly people and children.

I'm not sure why you'd pre-emptively accuse me of 'whataboutery'. Personally, I think people should try to shop ethically and in line with values wherever possible. There are awful things happening around the world, that I for one don't want to be choosing to support financially. If we all tried to shop a bit more ethically overall, the world might be a slightly better place - a lot of people making decisions on the global stage don't mind too much about human lives, but care quite a bit more about their profit margins.

Supporting Palestinians by boycotting Israeli products and services from the UK is all well and good.

I doubt Palestinians are boycotting Israeli food, medical supplies, water and electricity, that Israel has provided them with before and during this current conflict though.

Go figure.

You clearly haven't been paying attention.

@Buntycat

"It’s not unreasonable or insane, as long as a) you don’t try to deny that they’re fighting against terrorists, which was the original sentence, and b) you're consistent and do the same against every other country in the world acting in a way that’s against your values. God knows there are enough violent, murderous, racist, homophobic, misogynistic countries out there.

The problem arises when people ignore all the others and just signal their virtue by focusing on punishing one tiny country, the only majority Jewish country in the world.

And please don’t start shouting "Whataboutery!" How, other than by talking about other countries, is it possible to point out hypocrisy and double standards?"

“a) you don’t try to deny that they’re fighting against terrorists”

What I see is indiscriminate bombing of civilians - including tens of thousands of children, with the odd Hamas terrorist thrown in.

“b) you're consistent and do the same against every other country in the world acting in a way that’s against your values.”

Why should I? You’re not suggesting I should have to decry every human rights abuse on a scale before I get to Israel - a country I’ve been to many times and have personal ties with.

And if I don’t - what, am I somehow anti-Israel?

I will call out any atrocity I wish.

“The problem arises when people ignore all the others and just signal their virtue by focusing on punishing one tiny country, the only majority Jewish country in the world.”

Are you suggesting I should ignore a genocide because other genocides are worse?

Should I have ignored apartheid in South Africa because human rights abuses were worse elsewhere?

Is pointing out a mass-slaughter “virtue-signalling”?

Really, does Israel’s defence come down to “other countries are worse”?

Yes Israel is a small country, but it has the armaments of the global power, the USA, and has so far bombed the Gaza Strip with more bombs than were dropped on London, Dresden and Hamburg combined during WWII.

Indiscriminately.

In front of our eyes, every day.

And how exactly do you know that only "the odd Hamas terrorist" is a victim? Because you believe the statistics put out by…Hamas?
Are you saying that terrorists have only to situate themselves among civilians and they should then be immune from attack and retribution?
What is your evidence that the bombing is "indiscriminate"? I don’t believe that is the case.

I hate Netanyahu and don’t approve of what is happening in Gaza, but I don’t agree that it is "genocide". (And please don’t bother telling me about the UN definition. I have zero respect for the UN, an organisation that has appointed as its Chair of the women's rights and gender equality forum the representative sent by Saudi Arabia.)

You are right that "other countries are worse" is no defence. But it is still worth asking why so many people who are silent about the misdeeds of so many other countries have chosen this particular issue to focus on. Just as it’s worth wondering whether, as seems to be the case if you judge by the number of UN resolutions against them, Israel is really worse than all the other countries in the world put together (and this was before the current war started). All those murderous, repressive, misogynistic regimes in the world - yet somehow Israel, a democracy, is worse than all of them put together?

Of course, this dreadful war, and the terrible suffering of Gazan civilians, could have been ended many months ago if the abducted Israelis had been released and the October murderers and rapists brought to justice. You have of course been calling vociferously for that, all this time - haven’t you?

"Are you saying that terrorists have only to situate themselves among civilians and they should then be immune from attack and retribution?"

Are you saying that if one Hamas terrorist is hiding in a maternity hospital, that Israel has the right to bomb the entire hospital? Given that, of the 36 hospitals in Gaza, only 9 remain partially functioning, it would seem Israel thinks that’s fair game.

"What is your evidence that the bombing is "indiscriminate"? I don’t believe that is the case."

See photos. Does this look “targeted” to you?

"I hate Netanyahu and don’t approve of what is happening in Gaza, but I don’t agree that it is "genocide". (And please don’t bother telling me about the UN definition. I have zero respect for the UN, an organisation that has appointed as its Chair of the women's rights and gender equality forum the representative sent by Saudi Arabia.)"

I will respectfully disagree.

"You are right that "other countries are worse" is no defence. But it is still worth asking why so many people who are silent about the misdeeds of so many other countries have chosen this particular issue to focus on. Just as it’s worth wondering whether, as seems to be the case if you judge by the number of UN resolutions against them, Israel is really worse than all the other countries in the world put together (and this was before the current war started). All those murderous, repressive, misogynistic regimes in the world - yet somehow Israel, a democracy, is worse than all of them put together?"

I think that is nonsense actually. 76 years of the Palestinians driven out of their homeland, living under an apartheid occupation, illegal settlements, and violent settlers stealing their land, escorted and protected by the Police and Army, and barely a flicker. It took an atrocity against Israelis (not Palestinians) for the wider public to notice, and the demonstrations you now see.

Before Oct 7th (the deadliest year since 2005 for Palestinians in the WB) – nothing.

And I’ll never understand why the word democracy is trotted out as some kind of defence, as if democracies aren’t capable of electing raving lunatics.

"Of course, this dreadful war, and the terrible suffering of Gazan civilians, could have been ended many months ago if the abducted Israelis had been released and the October murderers and rapists brought to justice. You have of course been calling vociferously for that, all this time - haven’t you?"

Absolutely. It's a shame Netanyahu doesn't feel the same.

How Netanyahu has systematically foiled talks to release hostages from Hamas captivity

www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-07-10/ty-article-timeline/.premium/how-netanyahu-has-systematically-foiled-talks-to-release-hostages-from-hamas-captivity/00000190-9b91-d591-a7ff-fff341120000

I can’t access the article you’ve linked.

As I said, I hate Netanyahu. But I don’t think refusing to agree to the terms set by the abductors for the release of the kidnapped hostages means he wasn’t calling for their release. Negotiating with kidnappers and rewarding them for their crimes just leads to further kidnaps.

I'll take your word for it that you’ve been calling for their unconditional release all this time. Shame I never see posters or banners like that in the "ceasefire" marches.

Funny we don’t hear much about the hundreds of thousands of Jews "driven out of their homelands" in Arab countries in the late 1940s. Probably because they just rebuilt their lives elsewhere rather than casting themselves and their descendants as permanent victims. https://www.europarl.europa.eu/meetdocs/2004_2009/documents/fd/il20062006_07/il20062006_07en.pdf

I think the reason people boycott Israel and South Africa may simply be because 1) most people are familiar with those situations where as things like the US using drones in Yemen aren’t as well know and 2) both situations involved white people/people seen as Western so there is a sense of protesting the actions of your own people.

I know many white South Africans but I’ve never met anyone from Saudi for example.

It’s a huge jump to say Israel is being boycotted because of anti Semitism. The Irish for example, empathise with Palestine because they perceive Palestine as occupied in the same way that Ireland was. Given that the British invaders drove the native Irish to the West of Ireland where the land is difficult to farm it’s not hard to see the parallel. They stole land and houses from the Irish and then passed all sorts of penal laws making Irish people second class citizens in their own land. Their are overlaps with both Palestine and S.Africa.

Whereas people don’t agree with human rights abuses in other countries but they can’t relate to them to the same extent.

It’s not anti-Semitism.

I don’t disagree that Jewish people around the world are being targeted. It is wrong and it shouldn’t be happening. There will always be a certain amount of anti-Semitism, I don’t deny that. But the increasing levels at the moment are ultimately attributable to the actions of the state of Israel. If the state of Israel continues to target civilians in Gaza they know full well Jewish people around the world will suffer.

But the increasing levels at the moment are ultimately attributable to the actions of the state of Israel. If the state of Israel continues to target civilians in Gaza they know full well Jewish people around the world will suffer.

You know this is antisemitism, right? Anyone who attacks a jewish person because they are jewish is a racist. If they hold a jewish person accountable for the actions of Israel that is racist .
You have revealed yourself to be ignorant & to excuse the ignorance of others in the name of justifying racism. Jewish people are not white & many are not Western. They originate from the Middle East. Large numbers of Jews in Israel are directly from tbe Middle East (i.e. recent generations) Some are form other parts of the world such as Ethiopia.

@the7Vabo
"If the state of Israel continues to target civilians in Gaza they know full well Jewish people around the world will suffer." So you think the state of Israel should have its policies dictated by the actions of antisemites around the world?

What have Jews in other countries got to with the policies of Israel, other than being Jewish? (Not that I believe that Israel is "targeting civilians".)

Whether you like it or admit it or not, saying that Israel is ultimately responsible for the attacks on Jewish people around the world, so Israel should change its policies, is antisemitic and appalling.

You need to listen to yourself.

It’s not anti-Semitism

Oh it never is, is it?

Now...why don't you tell us for the third time about how you've visited synagogues?

The companies that are being boycotted don't even pay tax so it's a win either way tbh.

Israel should stop killing civilians in Gaza and denying them their human rights, but they won’t, and they have been supported by the UK government.

From a you gov survey carried out in May of this year, 82% of Britons would boycott a company (for various reasons). That’s a large proportion of people.

Listed below are the top five reasons people boycott companies, number two is that they engage in unethical practices, number three is that they do business with *countries I disagree with.

Boycotting is clearly a popular and non violent way to apply pressure to companies (and governments) who behave in unacceptable ways.

Market
Britain
#1
Products pose health risk
#2
Engages in unethical practices
#3
Does business with countries I disapprove
#4
Suddenly raises prices
#5
Is environmentally polluting

https://business.yougov.com/content/49332-unraveling-brand-boycotts-what-are-top-triggers-for-consumer-boycotts-across-global-markets

From the same source.

How likely are consumers to boycott brands for working with countries they disapprove of?

More than half of consumers in Indonesia (53%) and Denmark (52%) and close to half in Sweden (49%) and Britain (47%) would boycott brands which do business with countries whose actions consumers disapprove (e.g., military aggression, terrorism, human rights issues, unfair trade practices, etc).

What? What companies don’t pay tax?

Please just stop. I’m no more anti Jewish than you are.

The state of Israel is currently involved in a genocide. They are murdering children.

I can’t understand how people are so hung up and determined to see everything as anti Jewish.

Would there be anti Jewish behaviour in the world right now otherwise - of course there always is. Hence the need for a Jewish state.

Would it be happening to the extent it is of course not. I said it’s wrong and is don’t agree it with.

Can you please just leave me alone. You are harassing me with constant implications that underneath it all I’m somehow anti Jewish.

I started the thread I can post on it what I like without your sneering horrible implications.

Are there people who are anti Semitic 100%. I’m not one of them so please please can you just leave me alone.

Im trying to do the right thing. I have no wish to be sneered at.

If you don’t agree with boycotting don’t engage in it, I do and I shall. Because ultimately human life trumps everything else. And people are dying in Gaza as I write this and that to me is what is most important.

Really positive.

And we fundamentally disagree on one thing - I don’t believe that Israel gives a shit about civilians in Gaza.

In my personal opinion Jewish people outside of Israel have nothing to do with the state of Israel. What I meant was that the Israeli government knows full well the Jews outside of Israel will be targeted if they continue to massacre civilians in Gaza.

Once again, I do not agree with Jewish civilians or business outside of Israel being targeted. It’s about boycotting Israeli
businesses.

And yes Jewish people will always be targeted and yes some people will use this an excuse to target Jewish people outside of Israel. I’m fundamentally against both of those things.

I will still boycott because in my view human life trumps all else and I will do what I can no matter how small to try to help those poor helpless people who are trapped in Gaza.

You can see you are not anti Jewish until you are blue in the face. But you said this.

But the increasing levels at the moment are ultimately attributable to the actions of the state of Israel. If the state of Israel continues to target civilians in Gaza they know full well Jewish people around the world will suffer.

You are blaming Israel for the behaviour of racists. Absolutely no-one is responsible for anti-semitic behaviour other than antisemites.

I explained what I meant above. I’m blue in the face trying to get through to people who won’t engage.

If you think Israel isn’t targeting civilians we are unlikely to agree on much anyways so I think we should just end our conversation.