Boycotting Israeli products/services

[the7Vabo]

I’m trying my best to support the boycott. For those doing the same - what products/services are you using instead?

The hardest one for me has been giving up on going to Disney Paris next year. I had planned it as a joint birthday present, kids will be the perfect age. But I can’t stand in Disney with my kids knowing they support a regime killing kids.

Any good alternatives to Disney, or any other brand on the list?

Exactly. The son of this thread is to target Israel.

Yes, and I think that for us thousands of miles away it is easy to condemn terrorists for being terrorists….but what if they live next door? And you know they are happy to kill you and your family if they even suspect for a second you are non supportive? Have done so to others that you know of? Even if a rumour starts that perhaps you are mulling over shopping them to IDF? You’re not going to condemn them anywhere other than in your deepest most secret thoughts. You wouldn’t even confide in your family. You’re trapped in Gaza, you can’t leave ever because of the blockade that has last 16yrs with no end in sight. One only needs to read the memories of people who lived through the Troubles in NI, or under the USSR, or Mao’s China or Pol Pot to get a glimpse into the fact that unarmed regular civilians cannot condemn such rulers while living under their boot.

What did you think of Mehdi Hasan in the Munk debate?

@Scirocco
@SugarandSpiceandAllThingsNaice
@MoMo999

https://munkdebates.com/debates/munk-debate-on-anti-zionism/

This is relevant because having double standards with regard to Israel is deeply problematic.

These boycotts are often one manifestation of those double standards.

I think boycotting a company because they donated money to humanitarian relief charities in the wake of a horrendous terrorist attack that was rightly condemned around the world doesn't make it sound like you're picking on the bad guys here. Donanting money to humanitarian aid charities in the aftermath of a terrorist attack is a good thing.

Wait, so I thought your view was Hamas started the war by doing an act of war on Oct 7th, so the massacres would also have been war, are you now saying Hamas attack wasn’t an act of war and Israel started the current war? Because you can’t have it both ways.

So Disney and others should now donate to the children of Gaza because they are also being terrorised by the Israeli army. That’s also a daily terrorist attack on innocent children.

I haven't watched it, and it looks to require a $25 fee to stream it.

Don't know enough about it to comment, but reading the description you have posted, I'd say that debate starts from a false premise. Most people who say there are anti-Zionist not anti-Jewish, are really just trying to say they wish to make legitimate criticism of Israel but they are not hostile to Jews. The meaning of anti-Zionist in the sense of not believing that Israel should exist, is not what they are getting it.

As a general point, imo, it is Israel that holds the most double standards - actions speak louder than cynical press conferences designed to sway public opinion. The fact that Israel gets angrier and angrier that its propaganda doesn't sway people anymore, combined with their current military actions, is just one indicator that they have no moral high ground

"Doesn’t show much care for them", aka "refuses to negotiate their release at any cost". I loathe Netanyahu, but I see his point in this. You think it’s a good idea to reward and encourage kidnappers by agreeing to their demands for releasing their captives? How odd.
In 2011 a deal was done to exchange the Israeli Gilad Shalit for over 1000 prisoners (some of them serving life sentences for terrorist offences; between them they were responsible for over 500 Israeli deaths.) No doubt this exchange encouraged later abductions.
But I doubt very much whether, in your sympathy for the Palestinians, you ever call for them to release the people they abducted (some of them left-wing 'peaceniks'), because apparently you don’t think it would hasten the end of the war (another odd opinion) so aren’t interested in the suffering of them and their families. How sad.

66% voted that anti-Zionism is anti-semitism

https://honestreporting.com/the-evisceration-of-mehdi-hasan/

It's really worth a watch, there are clips all over the internet.

This article lays out the tactics of bad faith debating that were used.

Spoiler alert: the losing side were caught out lying.

I have no idea what you are trying to say but it seems you may be disrespecting the hostages' families stated feelings, as Netanyahu is doing.

Both sides have to compromise in a negotiation - it is absurd for Israel to suggest that Hamas release all the hostages but that Israel will continue the war. How would that ever be a proposition that will move things forward? Netanyahu not Hamas has rejected Biden's current peace deal, which Biden pretended Israel offered - despite this lie being roundly rejected by respected media who called this "diplomatic gymnastics" by the Americans.

As I said, many democracies, including Britain, have had to negotiate with those they consider terrorists to achieve peace. Israel is not above others.

Do you boycott all companies that don't donate to Gaza? Do you scrutinise every other company for their charitable choices?

People normally boycott companies that have done something bad. Donating to humanitarian aid charities in the aftermath of a horrendous terrorist attack isn't bad. You might not like the victims, but they are victims.

I do try to listen to a cross-section of views in order to form my opinions.

I stand by the fact that legitimate criticism of Israel is not, never has been and never will be anti-semitism.

Also, I won't be taking lessons in racism from a fascist like Douglas Murray, who in the real world, respresents only a minority view thankfully.

I'm not sure why you're asking my thoughts on this in the context of this thread.

@MoMo999

And Natasha Hausdorff.

You won't listen to what she has to say?

It is possible to criticize the Israeli government without being antisemitic, no one here has said otherwise.

However it can fall into antisemitism at times & as someone concerned with racism, I'm sure you find that troubling.

I was deeply troubled to see that George Galloway was invited to speak by the Palestinian Solidarity Campaign. Make of that what you will.

What suggests to you that Douglas Murray is a fascist?

Stop trying to derail this thread. I am not responding to such pointlessness and pretence further as it is disingenuous. Refer to @Scirocco's answer above.

I have no idea what you are trying to say but it seems you may be disrespecting the hostages' families stated feelings, as Netanyahu is doing.

Why don’t you read the post again. Its meaning is quite clear.

Incidentally, I’d be interested in knowing what makes you think Douglas Murray is a fascist, as well.

You didn't answer my questions I notice so we can assume what your answers are. As for the ridiculous suggestion that Israelis have equipment that can 'pinpoint' hostages - how does that work? Does an innocent person kidnapped at random suddenly develop some sort of smell, or aura, or electronic tracking signal that can be traced? When Hamas hides them tunnels, as Yocheved Lifshitz was, tell, me what equipment could track her? The whole reason Hamas uses tunnels is because they hide things, and people (though notably not their own civilians) and modern equipment such as gps doesnt work. Or this guy, hiding hostages in his home under cover of being a 'journalist' https://nypost.com/2024/06/09/world-news/gaza-journalist-held-3-hostages-in-his-home-with-his-family-israeli-military-says/

No Israel is not being tried for genocide. The ICC's prosecutor has requested arrest warrants for both Israeli & Hamas leaders and has issued statements (not sure of their exact legal status) on how Israel conducts the war. There is currently no trial.

Yes, I have quite an interest in history. Historians like facts. Yes, tunnel technology is ancient. Yes there have been tunnels in that region, as elsewhere, for a very long time (I dont think anyone said only Hamas has built all the tunnels, do correct me if Im wrong). But Hamas undoubtedly vastly expanded the network for specific strategic reasons & they are crucial to how they operate. There is so much information about this but you'll like this link because it does include historical background. https://www.wilsoncenter.org/blog-post/hamas-and-gazan-tunnels

Easily? Seemed like the last hostage rescue was far from easy.

I am not going to read the last couple of pages of this thread. Anyone who attempts to justify the death of innocent people in Gaza, and the destruction of their homeland, and then complains about the peaceful action of boycotting, is clearly acting from a biased perspective.

Not selling as many carrots as usual is not equivalent to having your children blown to pieces.

So not hamas fault? Because they were emboldened by the support they got? Hmm

And @OneGreenPlayer 's concept of 'enough support' is odd given that so few have been released. I expect the only measure of enough support that their families would recognise is getting them home safely.

The Nazis penned people in and killed them. They had an ally in the mufti of Jerusalem who they encouraged to carry on their final solution and it's legacy remains in the middle east today.
Many countries in the middle east have normalised relations with Israel but there are still many that are holding on to that extremist ideology. Many of the people in Israel are trying to tackle that by peaceful means to build a two state solution...a lot of them were killed on 7/10. Back to square one thanks to hamas.

BDS have some very dubious players when you drill down into them, but you do you.