"If its true that more than 100 women and children died", then "Israel violated International Law" during hostage rescue, says former executive director of Human Rights Watch

[HelenHen]

This is a very good read and seems to address many issues that were raised in other threads. Written by Kenneth Roth, former executive director of Human Rights Watch (1993-2022)

"International humanitarian law requires that a military refrain from launching an assault if the anticipated civilian toll “would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated”. It is reasonable to conclude that the Israeli operation fell short of this standard"

"International humanitarian law requires militaries to take “all feasible precautions” to spare civilians, which Hamas violated by holding the hostages in two apartment buildings in Nuseirat, but that does not relieve Israel of the separate duty to avoid an attack that causes disproportionate harm to civilians. Palestinian civilians do not stop being civilians just because they are endangered by Hamas."

"The duty to take all feasible precautions also applies to the Israeli military. One obvious precaution is to launch military operations at a time of day when fewer civilians are present, but the Israeli military launched the rescue operation shortly before noon, hoping to surprise Hamas, which would have expected a night-time operation. That may have made the operation safer for the Israeli soldiers involved, but it transferred the risk to the many Palestinian civilians who were out and about in the middle of the day, particularly in the nearby market, greatly increasing the death toll"

"What were the “dozens of nearby targets” that the Israel air force attacked? Was it able to strike Hamas fighters with any precision in the chaos of that moment? Or did it simply drop bombs in the vicinity, hoping to clear a path for the rescuers to flee despite the area being filled with civilians? We don’t know, but an independent investigation is clearly needed. Indiscriminate attacks are a war crime."

"While soldiers are allowed to engage in ruses – for example, feinting left while going right – they are not allowed to pretend to be a protected person, such as a civilian, because it endangers civilians when hostile forces cannot distinguish them from opposing military forces. That is why soldiers in combat wear uniforms."

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jun/13/international-criminal-court-investigation-israel-hostage-rescue-raid

If all the human rights organisations oppose what a state is doing, maybe - just maybe - the problem is the state going on a mad genocidal rampage, instead of a conspiracy theory?

This is the account I am aware of, which as you see does not assert that all of those killed or wounded were Palestinian civilians.

GENEVA (14 June 2024) – UN human rights experts today strongly condemned the umpteenth massacre by Israeli forces in Gaza during a hostage rescue operation in Nuseirat Refugee Camp, which killed at least 274 Palestinians, including 64 children and 57 women, and injured nearly 700*

Out of interest, do you happen to believe what the IDF said, that only 104 Palestinians were killed, all of who were Hamas fighters or armed civilians?

Ignoring the evidence, and reports you may disbelieve, do you even think this IDF reckoning of the casualties of this operation would be hypothetically possible given the bombing/missile shooting of the crowded day-time market place, and the bombing/missile shooting of numerous apartment buildings, coming from the sea to the west and from the east?

@ScrollingLeaves this is the source that calls the IDF the "Israeli Occupation Force". It is not a neutral source.

Did they have a sign up saying "we're resting hostages"?

Israeli government are not in a position to declare how many died on foreign soil at their hands.

Once again, did they hang around and process and ID all the bodies?

That's why it's a ridiculous claim.

We should send in independent international observers, allow them to do their job safely and and there will be no debate about numbers.

The point here is that even if you think this is not a neutral enough source, even this non- neutral source is not saying that all those killed ( in the numbers they assert) were civilians. That allows for the fact that Hamas fighters would have been killed too.

I was answering Noble Giraffe’s previous post about that.

The IDF itself does not seem to be a neutral source, in my opinion. The IDF claimed, according to an article posted in another thread which gave an account of the rescue operation, that only 104 were killed and all of those were Hamas fighters or armed civilians.

This is clearly not possible given the massive air and sea and land bombing operation the IDF described which they carried out in a densely populated area.

Why did the IDF say this?

I suppose people find it hard to believe the IDF because their response since 7th October has resulted in them killing people who are clearly nothing to do with Hamas and unnecessarily decimating vast parts of Gaza, including hospitals and schools, while spewing genocidal nonsense and being nowhere near achieving their stated aim of the total destruction of Hamas. We have also been encouraged by Israeli propaganda to believe all these deaths are necessary and despite reports that say otherwise, the people in Gaza have access to enough food. And now, we (the public) are told that our empathy is helping Hamas!

So in the context of the Israeli governments out of proportion response, their genocidal comments, reckless disregard for Palestinian lives, their incompetence and desire to control the narrative by trying to shut down support for innocent people in Gaza, which has included trying to label people (more lies!) in this country as antisemitic, terrorist supporters or Pro Hamas. Why on earth would we believe them!

The Israeli government and IDF have lost all credibility! Their words are no more trustworthy than Hamas.

It’s as if the civilians who got killed in this hostage rescue aren’t real people because they aren’t Israelis! They are just numbers!

It’s not a case of the IDF going in and just shooting everything and then leaving. They had people shooting at them too. Unfortunately civilians will have been caught in the crossfire

Just to be clear. It wasn’t just shooting - air strikes were launched.

Out of interest, do you happen to believe what the IDF said, that only 104 Palestinians were killed, all of who were Hamas fighters or armed civilians?

🤦‍♀️ I refer you to my previous comments.

People so quick to dispute the Israeli claim that under 100 were killed, and only Hamas and armed civilians, yet happily let past the oft-repeated Hamas claim that Israel murdered 274 civilians, no Hamas, and Hamas didn't kill anyone.

This comment?
I already responded to this point you made by saying that have only seen a ( non Israeli) claim that of 274 Palestinians killed, 121 were women and children. This means the remainder could be Hamas and armed civilians.

I wondered if you believed the Israeli claim? I too could put my head in my hands.

It’s not a long thread.

Also this.