"If its true that more than 100 women and children died", then "Israel violated International Law" during hostage rescue, says former executive director of Human Rights Watch

[HelenHen]

This is a very good read and seems to address many issues that were raised in other threads. Written by Kenneth Roth, former executive director of Human Rights Watch (1993-2022)

"International humanitarian law requires that a military refrain from launching an assault if the anticipated civilian toll “would be excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated”. It is reasonable to conclude that the Israeli operation fell short of this standard"

"International humanitarian law requires militaries to take “all feasible precautions” to spare civilians, which Hamas violated by holding the hostages in two apartment buildings in Nuseirat, but that does not relieve Israel of the separate duty to avoid an attack that causes disproportionate harm to civilians. Palestinian civilians do not stop being civilians just because they are endangered by Hamas."

"The duty to take all feasible precautions also applies to the Israeli military. One obvious precaution is to launch military operations at a time of day when fewer civilians are present, but the Israeli military launched the rescue operation shortly before noon, hoping to surprise Hamas, which would have expected a night-time operation. That may have made the operation safer for the Israeli soldiers involved, but it transferred the risk to the many Palestinian civilians who were out and about in the middle of the day, particularly in the nearby market, greatly increasing the death toll"

"What were the “dozens of nearby targets” that the Israel air force attacked? Was it able to strike Hamas fighters with any precision in the chaos of that moment? Or did it simply drop bombs in the vicinity, hoping to clear a path for the rescuers to flee despite the area being filled with civilians? We don’t know, but an independent investigation is clearly needed. Indiscriminate attacks are a war crime."

"While soldiers are allowed to engage in ruses – for example, feinting left while going right – they are not allowed to pretend to be a protected person, such as a civilian, because it endangers civilians when hostile forces cannot distinguish them from opposing military forces. That is why soldiers in combat wear uniforms."

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jun/13/international-criminal-court-investigation-israel-hostage-rescue-raid

@LastTrainEast Shoot back at who? The Nazis or innocent civilians?

No one opposes rescuing hostages. Many are concerned and upset with the amount of innocent civilians killed as a result of that rescue.
You are being pretty selective and inflammatory with what you are saying

@LastTrainEast Your post was deleted but I was going to reply saying people don't object to rescuing hostages. Instead they see shades of grey whereas it appears the supporters of the far right (including a convicted terrorist supporting one) Israeli ministers only see black and white.
Interestingly you mention Nazi supporters, I read in Haaretz that some Israeli's are celebrating the rise of the far right in Europe (irony just hit me through the heart)just as we see on here the ridiculing of "the left" and our "left media" who oppose Israeli Govt action in Gaza.
In the UK we see the far right like EDL supporting Israel too.
Repeat again - the irony.

It is incorrect information and human rights watch have well known anti Israel bias. Also israel are clear that only Hamas and armed civilians were killed so it’s not an issue anyway.

it’s funny that we never heard any of this in the war the uk and us (together with others) fought against Isis? We killed far more civilians and used special forces.

Sadly there has always been antisemitism in both the left and right. It’s not particularly ironic. We have seen it from everyone from Eastern European and soviet communists to Jeremy corbyns Labour Party. Many of the current antisemitic attacks (maybe most) are coming from the left but equally there remain right wing antisemitism too.

sadly this sort of hate and conspiracy theories about Jews and Israel, not to mention double standards, just don’t seem to go away.

Educate yourself and many many people couldn't make the march.
And I also think Israel are talking bollocks saying only Hamas and armed civilians were killed in the hostage rescue.
‘A beautiful outpouring of rage’: did Britain’s biggest ever protest change the world? | Politics past | The Guardian

Also israel are clear that only Hamas and armed civilians were killed so it’s not an issue anyway.
Oh if Israel are clear that's fine then no issue at all thanks for clearing that up

it’s funny that we never heard any of this in the war the uk and us (together with others) fought against Isis?
There was loads in the media about that war, warts and all and that was pre social media and X, maybe you weren't old enough to remember?

We killed far more civilians
You didn't

Seems like everyone in Gaza is either a woman or a child, and accurate figures are available at all times - apart from how many hostages are still alive. No idea apparently.

I was there

Well there is a really high percentage of children in Gaza apologies for the inconvenience

The first casualty in war is the truth - that’s the old saying. I think both Hamas and the Israeli authorities are lying. I don’t believe for a minute that only “armed civilians” and Hamas were killed. In fact I have a real issue about the word civilian being used to describe people who are clearly Hamas - like the people keeping the hostages. Israel are saying this to justify civilian death.

I would be fairly sceptical of Hamas women and children figures. They have their own agenda.

Only independent investigation will discover the truth,

The humanity coming from your post! 50% of Gazan’s are children. It’s fairly logical that a lot have been killed, starved and maimed.

Some people can’t resist arguing the numbers. How uncomfortable it would be for these people to imagine the pain of seeing your parents or your child killed, in broad daylight, because you happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, and for Israel to write you off as collateral damage. God have mercy on those who cannot entertain the suffering of others while being so consumed by their own fear.

The ones jumping all over Liraz Assulin were men. They'll all be innocent civilian men though

That's because 75% of the population of Gaza are either children (50%) or women (25%).

Also israel are clear that only Hamas and armed civilians were killed so it’s not an issue anyway.

They are lying.
Bare faced liars on this.

I think it’s quite complicated to a)clarify deaths b)attribute deaths. There are reports that Hamas were using RPG’s and grenades, one of those hits a building in a crowded area and it’s a disaster for anyone in the vicinity.

It’s not a case of the IDF going in and just shooting everything and then leaving. They had people shooting at them too. Unfortunately civilians will have been caught in the crossfire.

I don’t believe only armed civilians were killed, equally I wouldn’t be 100% sure that those who were killed were solely killed by IDF.

Fog of war and all that.

"If" ......

Also the soldiers in the clip are clearly in uniform. It seems they wanted to slip away quietly and did so with one rescue. A simultaneous rescue received heavy fire so they have to fire back or die.

Also a hamas fired rocket powered grenade hitting a populated building. I mean it's pretty obvious they don't care for their women and children. No need for them to do that. The cynical way they use death to further their heinous aims.

Also do innocent civilians shoot back at rescuers of hostages. Do innocent civilians fire RPGs. Some of those would be in the hamas figures of who died or do Israeli rescue forces guns not kill hamas then since they never appear to die.

People so quick to dispute the Israeli claim that under 100 were killed, and only Hamas and armed civilians, yet happily let past the oft-repeated Hamas claim that Israel murdered 274 civilians, no Hamas, and Hamas didn't kill anyone.

As there are no independent observers on the ground it is easy to quarrel over numbers.

While not related to this one specific event, but the Israeli response as a whole, I hope this information is less debatable.

https://unitar.org/about/news-stories/press/new-satellite-imagery-analysis-reveals-30-gaza-strip-structures-damaged

And this, satellite imagery shows over 50% of cropland in Gaza has been damaged.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/more-than-half-of-cropland-in-gaza-is-damaged-un-says/

WHO assessment of Al-Shifa hospital on the 5th of April.

Gaza: ‘Systematic dismantling of healthcare must end’ says WHO

‘That’s the assessment following a WHO-led multi-agency mission to Al-Shifa Hospital in northern Gaza on 5 April which examined the extent of destruction following a weeks-long Israeli offensive aimed at rooting out militant forces who were allegedly operating inside.
The highly complex mission was conducted in collaboration with the acting Hospital Director.’

‘Prior to the mission, WHO’s efforts to reach the hospital to evacuate patients and staff and conduct an assessment, were denied, delayed or impeded six times between 25 March and 1 April.’

https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/04/1148316

You might not like Al Jazeera but you can check out these images and verify them yourselves if you want to.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2024/4/18/satellite-images-reveal-israeli-destruction-of-hospitals-in-gaza