"Brilliant moment pro-Israel protesters get their own back on pro-Palestine mob"

[keenforhelp]

Pro-Israel supporters have taken to the streets after a cinema was vandalised with graffiti for planning to show a film about the Nova festival massacre at the hands of Hamas terrorists.

Pro-Palestine activists sprayed the Phoenix Cinema in East Finchley, London, with the message "say no to artwashing". In response, members of the Jewish community and campaigners against anti-Semitism are holding a demonstration outside the picturehouse.
Music could be heard blaring, including Elton John's I'm Still Standing, as smiling pro-Israel supporters waved the Israeli flag in a show of defiance.
A tiny band of pro-Palestine protesters are on the scene, however they are vastly outnumbered.

The volunteer, who wished to remain anonymous, told The Telegraph: “It’s just an outrage. People who are survivors of this massacre are coming here and they could have been confronted with red graffiti that honestly looked like blood.
“One of the people here knows someone who survived the massacre and she was coming tonight. Imagine the trauma if she saw this. People from the community have gone together to clean it up.
“It claimed that the film was artwashing - but it’s not. It’s footage from the festival. It shows what happened. There’s no agenda.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1902945/phoenix-cinema-finchley-israel-protest

Here’s the list where @ShambalaAnna said explicitly she was more bothered about the press reporting of the attack on the film than the attack itself. I suppose it’s good in a way that she now feels she has to pretend she didn’t do this, but she overlooks the fact that people have memories longer than those of goldfish and fleas.

Oh, and implied that the report was untrue for good measure. Like I said, wow.

What bothers you the most?

1. The fact that you're wrong

2. The fact that Jews stand up for themselves & call out your BS

3. The fact that your opinion is irrelevant to the geo politics of the ME & that Israeli soldiers are doing vastly more for the people in Gaza by getting rid of Hamas, than you are by Jew baiting on Mumsnet.

As others have already pointed out to you, claiming that Jews always cry wolf is a well documented anti-Semitic trope.

@DuskyBlueDepartingLight the only way Israeli soldiers could be said to be helping the people of Gaza is if you are comforted by the knowledge that everyone unjustly killed by them is a martyr and granted Jannat al-Firdaus. They are murdering people, torturing people, and terrorising civilians, including children.

Martyrdom & misogynistic death cults aren't part of my culture.

Neither are the Islamic concepts you referenced.

שבוע תוב

Well, if you don't believe that murdered children and other innocent people go to heaven, then that sounds like quite a bleak concept of the afterlife to me.

And in that case there's really no way in which Israeli soldiers could be said to be 'helping' anyone in Palestine.

@DuskyBlueDepartingLight I have heard it all now
Israeli soldiers are helping the people of Gaza???
By blowing up their home and children and indiscriminately killing them
I'm sure all those buried in large mass graves were so pleased with the 'help'

@Mummy2024 still hasn’t told us all where anti-semitism is defined in law - which is very odd, given how adamant she was that the legal definition would exonerate her of that charge.
really very curious indeed.

@Marjoriefrobisher the UK and most of the EU uses the IHRA definition of antisemitism, so that's what UK police forces use when considering whether an act or alleged act meets their criteria for an antisemitic hate crime or other offence aggravated by racial or religious prejudice.

Im aware of the IHRA definition, thanks. I want to know where @Mummy2024 thinks anti semitism is legally defined.
the actual approach to identifying whether a crime is aggravated by racial or religious hatred is not as you state; see the code for crown prosecutors
https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/racist-and-religious-hate-crime-prosecution-guidance
as you will see, it is a far more subjective approach than you or @Mummy2024 suggest.

If you're aware that the UK government (and by extension, police and criminal justice system) adopted the IHRA definition, I'm not sure why you're asking the other poster what definition is used in UK law? Because that's the definition used.

so the link I posted you to shows that it is not the IHRA definition which is used for the purpose of charging racially or religiously aggravated offences; maybe have a look at it and at what I actually said before responding. You’re under the impression I have said something which is diametrically opposed to what I have said. To put it more simply, you are confused

And even if it were the IHRA definition which was used, that would not mean that anti semitism was legally defined. The IHRA does not make the law in this country; parliament does that. I’m sure @Mummy2024 will be back in a bit to tell us about the legislation definiing anti semitism which Parliament has passed and which places her in the clear

Police use the IHRA definition when identifying cases needing flagged in relation to it. What you've linked to is a guide to what happens next, which is a reasonably robust assessment process. The IHRA doesn't make any law; their definition was adopted by the UK government in December 2016.

Places me In the clear of what? Are you insinuating I have broken the law? Or that I am being antisemitic by wanting the government of Israel to change tactics?I've made abundantly clear I am in support of Israels right to defend itself. I have also made absolutely clear that Jewish people are no more responsible for what is happening in this war than I am (I used those exact words), ive also said hamas are terrorists and should be prosecuted, the only thing that i have been critical of is the government of Israels approach in palastine, and i would be critical of any government of any country that is taking the action that they are, that is not antisemitic.Let me tell you that I am discriminated against on a regular basis, I mean look at what you are doing now, trying to intimidate me because i am against the level of death we are seeing in palastine. If I am to be prosecuted for being a humane person, who is absolutely heart broken by the children in that country being killed then so be it, let them throw the book at me, even if I've not said 1 single bad thing about Jewish people at all.

I didn't suggest Jews always cry wolf at all, I suggested the word is used to much when it comes to decisions made by the Israel leaders being criticised. Straight away people are labelled antisemitic when they question those decisions.

I would appreciate it, if you didn't put words into my mouth. I haven't been critical of Jewish people in anyway. I treat people as individuals their faith has nothing to do with it, and if someone labels me antisemitic and I talk about that word being used in the situation above incorrectly, I am talking to that individual not the entire group, we are on an Internet forum and I would not know what faith the person I'm responding to is anyway, so you see why you are so wrong? Another false accusation.

I also wish to point out that on the one post that I did use the words "they" and "Jewish people" in the same post. I went on to clarify in my next post that when I said the word they I was talking about individual people using the word to shut down criticism of what is happening in palastine. I would never intentionally stereotype or discriminate against anyone of any nationality or faith and its deeply hurtful when I am accused of it.

I can assure you I'm not "Jew baiting" as you put it. That is not my intention at all. Everyone is an individual, everyone has a right to dignity and respect irrespective of faith or nationality and I would appreciate it if you show me some.

A person's behaviour has nothing to do with their faith and I've never insinuated in anyway that it does. I've been treated terribly on here by multiple people despite continuously saying. I am not against israels right to self defence. The second you start questioning the tactics being used you are attacked and labelled by individuals who don't agree.

I'm done on answering anyone who wishes to wrongly label me. If you quote me or tag me, don't be surprised if you don't get a reply. I've said all I'm going to say on the subject.

so I wonder what the point of citing the IHRA definition in answer to the question « where is anti Semitism defined in law » was, then. As established, the law does not look at the IHRA definition. It looks at the perception of the victim.

You attempted to argue that you could not be anti semitic because you had not behaved in a way which the law defines as anti semitic. I asked you for the legal definition of anti semitism which, strangely, you seem to be unable to supply.
So you’re still on the hook, it seems

Israeli soldiers are doing vastly more for the people in Gaza by getting rid of Hamas, than you are by Jew baiting on Mumsnet.

I just want to note that I find this statement reprehensible.

@Mummy2024 isn't 'on a hook' for anything. It's very clear what she was referring to. The UK police and wider government use the IHRA definition of antisemitism. So, when considering if an offence includes antisemitism, that's the legally relevant definition.

@Mummy2024n't done anything to deserve nastiness here. If people don't like that the UK government and justice system uses the IHRA definition, then I would suggest taking it up with them.

@Mummy2024

First you said stop politicizing war.

Next that Jews don't get to define AS.

Then that AS isn't relevant because it's a political issue!?

You've repeatedly told Jews what AS is - so you clearly think that YOU get to decide what AS is.

I agree with @79Helene that you THINK you're being accused of AS for criticising Israel when you're actually not.

You haven't been misunderstood.

Claiming discrimination when Jews disagree with you on this issue is another classic AS trope & very DARVO.

You haven't been labelled - you started a disagreement on the Internet. People disagreeing with you is not intimidation.

I will take some of your assertions at face value. No one wants war. Are your family & friends on the frontline? Are your friends' kids being killed? All loss of life is tragic. We are all scared & angry.

As much as I loathe BN, I agree that: if Hamas (& all Jew haters) put down their weapons, there would be no war. If Israel put down their weapons, there would be no Israel...& no Jews & it won't stop there.