Rafah bombings (Edited by Mumsnet)

[TwilightSkies]

Where the hell are all the Palestinians meant to go now?
They were TOLD to go to Rafah, that Rafah was a safe place.
It’s just open extermination at this point.

I don't support the israrel gov or Hamas but we must never forget the hideous acts these morons from Hasmas inflicted on the men, women and children on Oct 7th

Goes without saying that there would be a ceasefire right now if the hostages were released right now and no one can argue with that

Another fact, none of this would have happened if Hams really cared about the ordinary people of Gaza as they would have never committed the hideous crimes of Oct 7th and are still holding men and women, hostages,

No one can forget that dead lady in the back of the -pick-up truck naked with armed men sat around her, truck going through town and people of all ages inc children spitting on that naked woman's body

I would not be surprised if US has threatened them indeed.

(p.s How people are talking about civilian hostage taking and negotiating as if it is a normal part of conflict amazes me. )

I don't think bringing a population to the brink of famine is a normal part of conflict either, it horrifies me, yet here we are. There is nothing normal, acceptable or proportional from either side

The U.S have actually done very well here.

They have allowed and supported Israel in destroying Hamas, have prevented the conflict broadening, and have brought Israel to heel in using starvation as a tactic and stopped then from attacking Rafah without a plan to protect civilians.

Hopefully this is a good sign for a proper permanent regional settlement.

Well it's not really Israel's decision who runs Gaza is it?

I presumed it wasn't a permanent ceasefire. There's give and take in negotiations. I assume Hamas know how bad they're making Israel look by agreeing to the deal so that's why they're willing to accept these terms.

Netanyahu has said that if there's a deal and the hostages are released he's still going to invade Rafah. So that part of your post is incorrect.

And yes I agree that there's nothing normal about this conflict. I suspect the international courts will be busy for decades dealing with hundreds of war crimes against civilians.

They've done really well! Hundreds of thousands of killed, maimed and displaced Gazans would disagree. Jesus.

Goes without saying that there would be a ceasefire right now if the hostages were released right now and no one can argue with that

Bibi had said repeatedly that it wouldn’t make any difference, they are going to bomb Rafah regardless. There are regular demonstrations protesting about this in Israel. Are you completely unaware of all this? It’s been going on since October.

@ConnieCounter ,

‘Well it's not really Israel's decision who runs Gaza is it? ‘

In the short term Israel will have to run it. Longer term, the Gazans should be internationally supported in running a free and fair election, but no parties whose averred aim is the destruction of Israel will be allowed to run. It will be similar to Iraq post the removal of Sadam Hussain.

This is where, if Israel have any sense, they will try and win the hearts and minds of the civilians there.

‘I presumed it wasn't a permanent ceasefire. There's give and take in negotiations. I assume Hamas know how bad they're making Israel look by agreeing to the deal so that's why they're willing to accept these terms.’

They aren’t making Israel look bad at all. The reason they have accepted it is that their 4 remaining battalions were about to be wiped out and Qatar had agreed to extradite the senior leadership to the U.S if they didn’t.

‘Netanyahu has said that if there's a deal and the hostages are released he's still going to invade Rafah. So that part of your post is incorrect.’

I said Hamas needed to surrender and release the hostages. They are not going to be left running Gaza and nor should they be.

@ConnieCounter ,

‘They've done really well! Hundreds of thousands of killed, maimed and displaced Gazans would disagree. Jesus.’

After the October massacre, there were no good alternatIves, only less bad ones.

1/ Israel totally lose the plot and destroy Gaza from the air, with far more killed.

2/ Hezbollah and Lebanon attack Israel and Israel respond by invading Lebanon with, again, far more displaced and killed.

3/ Full Israel/Iran conflict which could bring in much of the world.

So, yes, in my opinion, the U.S have done really well.

How people are talking about killed civilians and saying one of the option is best as if it is a normal part of conflict amazes me

@Newbutoldfather Judging from how Israel run the West Bank and East Jerusalem, I'm not sure they should be allowed to run Gaza. The occupation there has done very little to improve peace and prosperity.

Or, indeed, the Golan Heights.

It has to stop, one way or another.
There will not be any better time than now.
News record celebrations in Rafah in hope of this meaning the attack is not going ahead.
I do hope that they release the remainder of the hostages. I do wonder how many of them are alive and how are they doing with the lack of food and supplies?

I think an international peace keeping force will be required.

Israel does indeed have a right to self defence. However, they have demonstrated that they have no clue about proportionality.

@Newbutoldfather
In the short term Israel will have to run it.
Are you insane? You think the best place to rebuild Gaza and built trust is to have Israel in charge. The IDF have killed 10s of thousands of them and openly despise them. It would have to be an international peace keeping force independent of either Israel or Hamas.

I do not think Israel should run Gazain the interim. I actually think that is a very bad idea!

Agreed @Dulra and@NerdWhoEatsMedlar

I always thought that the UN would have to keep order till they are ready to stablish new parties and elections.
Israel will not take kindly to the UN. I actually think they have pushed the UN out of the way for this very reason. But I do think we should bring it back.

Absolutely I would not trust the IDF in Gaza and I doubt the international community would either. In NI they had to completely dismantle the Royal Ulster Constabulary because the nationalist communities had no trust in them. They set up a completely new police force called the Police Service of Northern Ireland

They haven't pushed out the UN they have tried to undermine the UNWRA. They think the UN is anti-semitic

I wouldn't trust the IDF to manage anything at this point. They've shown what value they (don't) place on the lives of Palestinians.

Yeah, a full rebuilt of all departments of government will be needed. They cannot leave anything for Hamas to control. Gaza needs to be free of them.
Israel cannot be trusted to run Gaza and they should leave the West Bank to rule itself freely too.

"Excuse me, we're starving to death in the ruins of our society while feral dogs eat our dead ..."

"Here, have some more bullets fired at you."

People who willingly destroyed a society, celebrated the commission of war crimes, and expressed genocidal intent towards a people aren't exactly top of my list of people I'd trust to facilitate the rebuilding of that society.

They have seen their funding cut (for UNRWA) and their presence in- situ reduced, including visas denied.
I know I oversimplified it, sorry.