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Conflict in the Middle East

Forensic Al Jazeera investigation into October 7th

151 replies

Finallyloggedin · 22/03/2024 18:54

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/3/21/october-7-forensic-analysis-shows-hamas-abuses-many-false-israeli-claims

This is well worth a watch. It gives context to the Israel/Hamas conflict. Certainly doesn’t paint Hamas in a favourable light, I don’t think. Goes into chilling details of many terrible atrocities committed by Hamas. It Also disproves some of the allegations made by the Israeli government and repeatedly referred to by journalists and politicians around the world.

Also raises many questions on how October 7th ever happened…

October 7: Forensic analysis shows Hamas abuses, many false Israeli claims

Investigation draws up a list of those killed but also finds certain claims repeated by Israeli politicians untrue.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/3/21/october-7-forensic-analysis-shows-hamas-abuses-many-false-israeli-claims

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Finallyloggedin · 27/03/2024 21:49

https://x.com/malcolm_ishmeal/status/1772861662363541948?s=61&t=nilGqPeurpC5xVqZAZdZog

Israeli Sexual violance against Palestinian children in Israeli jails was documented confirms Josh Paul, (Former) Director at U.S. Department of State, Resigned in Protest of Israel's war on Gaza.

https://x.com/malcolm_ishmeal/status/1772861662363541948?s=61&t=nilGqPeurpC5xVqZAZdZog

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Scirocco · 27/03/2024 22:01

Finallyloggedin · 27/03/2024 21:49

https://x.com/malcolm_ishmeal/status/1772861662363541948?s=61&t=nilGqPeurpC5xVqZAZdZog

Israeli Sexual violance against Palestinian children in Israeli jails was documented confirms Josh Paul, (Former) Director at U.S. Department of State, Resigned in Protest of Israel's war on Gaza.

Thanks, please could you share this in the 'Sexual violence against Palestinians...' thread too?

fungipie · 27/03/2024 22:05

This reply has been deleted

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Finallyloggedin · 27/03/2024 22:30

@Scirocco yes no problem, I just shared on there.

Hopefully it will stay…

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ConnieCounter · 28/03/2024 13:22

EasterIssland · 28/03/2024 12:50

I don't know how that psycho sleeps at night.

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25milesfromhome · 28/03/2024 23:57

Interesting article, if a bit overlong and rambling. Some snippets:

Regrettably, ‘Hamas’s wildly successful prison break’ just got a bit out of hand, victims of their own success, really.

‘the crimes Hamas committed against civilians in Israel on 7 October - and those it did not - have been used to overshadow the fact that it carried out a spectacularly sophisticated military operation on 7 October in breaking out of a long-besieged Gaza.‘

It is so unfair. Hamas just did not get the approbation they deserve for killing and kidnapping people, particularly their inspired taking of children and old people as hostages.

‘The attacks of 7 October should have forced Israelis to reassess their dismissive attitude towards the Palestinians and address the question of whether Israel’s decades-long regime of apartheid and brutal subjugation could - and should - continue indefinitely. ‘

Because nothing says “You should reassess your dismissive attitude” quite like a massive bout of rape, murder and hostage taking, whilst firing thousands of missiles at Israel.

‘Predictably, Israelis ignored the message of Hamas’ attack and dug deeper into their colonial mindset.’

You don’t say? ‘Colonial mindset’ doing some heavy lifting here for the deliberately provoked and predictably disproportionate Israeli response to the message which got a bit lost in the massive bout of rape, murder, hostage taking and missile firing.

‘And the Hamas operation has crushed the worldwide reputation of the Israeli military for invincibility. It has inspired Yemen's Ansar Allah (the Houthis) to attack vessels in the Red Sea. It is emboldening Israel’s arch-enemy, Hezbollah, in neighbouring Lebanon. It has reinvigorated the idea that resistance is possible across the much-oppressed Middle East.’

Yes, well done Hamas! Inflame that endless cycle of violence! Make sure to elevate it by calling it resistance.

Followed by a weird segue into a paranoid conspiracy theory that the Israel Lobby and its partisans control the British media and The Establishment and were therefore solely responsible for the downfall of Jeremy Corbyn.

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Finallyloggedin · 29/03/2024 16:35

@25milesfromhome as I’m sure you know, the “mass rape” story of October 7th has been disproven. That is one of the main findings of the documentary. Hamas committed some terrible atrocities on October 7th, there is no need to make others up or to push narratives that have already been proven as untrue.

It is important that we all stick to the facts when debating.

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stomachamelon · 29/03/2024 17:36

@Finallyloggedin really? Did I miss that?

stomachamelon · 29/03/2024 17:37

@25milesfromhome it's laughable.

25milesfromhome · 29/03/2024 17:41

Finallyloggedin · 29/03/2024 16:35

@25milesfromhome as I’m sure you know, the “mass rape” story of October 7th has been disproven. That is one of the main findings of the documentary. Hamas committed some terrible atrocities on October 7th, there is no need to make others up or to push narratives that have already been proven as untrue.

It is important that we all stick to the facts when debating.

@FinallyloggedinAs I’m sure you know, I was referring to the article you posted above, which doesn’t particularly address the rapes and sexual assaults committed by Hamas and their associates on and following October 7th.

The article is very low on verified facts or evidence, mostly just opinion and vitriol. Posting an article that veers from sneaking regardism to naked admiration for Hamas’ terrorist acts of violence and murder (as they usher in a glorious new era of “resistance” across the oppressed Middle East) whilst blaming Israeli Lies for every single thing that’s ever happened, ever, is a fairly clear indication that evidence, balance and respectful debate are not high on the list of priorities here.

That article may as well have been entitledHamas Fucked Around and They Found Out. A Hamas Spokesman Tells Their Definitely More Trustworthy Side of the Story: “Waaaaah, Israel didn’t interpret our message of mass slaughter the way we wanted them to and now they’re telling on us, it’s not faaaaair!!” (And btw, the Zionists control the media.)’

If you want to have a debate about facts, it might help to actually provide some.

Finallyloggedin · 29/03/2024 17:46

@stomachamelon yes it has, did you watch the documentary?

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Finallyloggedin · 29/03/2024 17:49

This reply has been deleted

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25milesfromhome · 29/03/2024 18:01

you shouldn’t repeat disinformation to support your viewpoint.

Wise advice, maybe apply it to this entire thread.

One might almost surmise you are trying to dehumanise the Palestinians in order to justify a genocide…

Then one would be surmising wrongly and perhaps needs to ask oneself why one thinks it’s acceptable to glibly make such an offensive accusation.

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stomachamelon · 29/03/2024 19:30

'If you want to have a debate about facts, it might help to actually provide some'

Exactly how I see it.

I prefer your title @25milesfromhome. It's far more fitting.

25milesfromhome · 29/03/2024 19:33

It’s definitely more factual.

OpalOP · 29/03/2024 19:47

Finallyloggedin · 29/03/2024 19:27

Is everyone you follow on twitter a Hamas sympathiser?

Finallyloggedin · 29/03/2024 19:51

https://x.com/saulstaniforth/status/1773658536976711742?s=61&t=nilGqPeurpC5xVqZAZdZog

Andrew Feinstein and Francesca Albanese on what happens if you criticise the actions of the state of Israel.

https://x.com/saulstaniforth/status/1773658536976711742?s=61&t=nilGqPeurpC5xVqZAZdZog

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Finallyloggedin · 29/03/2024 19:53

@stomachamelon you haven’t directly answered my question so I’ll ask it again, did you watch the documentary, from start to finish?

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Scirocco · 29/03/2024 19:55

@OpalOP if you Google Jimmy Carter you can read and watch more about his views on Palestine. His book, 'Palestine: Peace not apartheid' is available on Amazon.

OpalOP · 29/03/2024 20:12

Scirocco · 29/03/2024 19:55

@OpalOP if you Google Jimmy Carter you can read and watch more about his views on Palestine. His book, 'Palestine: Peace not apartheid' is available on Amazon.

OP didn't post a link to Jimmy Carters book, it was to a dodgy twitter account.

Scirocco · 29/03/2024 20:19

In case you were concerned about the authenticity of the video, that's an alternative way to see what Jimmy Carter thought.

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