Heartbreaking 😢

[WhenIsaywhoaimeanwhoa]

Just heartbroken watching this. When will their suffering cease?

Your post smacks of eugenics.

I don't think it is reasonable to call anyone who doesn't agree with you a "bot".

I'd agree that this situation grew out of the behaviour of both sides.I still think that Hamas is a massive problem, including a problem for their own people.

There is also a very big question about what the Israelis can reasonably be expected to do, to withdraw from conflict but also prevent an "existential threat" to their own people. After 7/10 (and after the events of the 20th century) of course they want these things never to happen again.

Seeing the reports from Gaza, of course the whole world wants this to stop.

So, how can this stop without the Israeli people living in fear of more pogroms? It doesn't look like an easy answer to me. But I hope they find a solution to this soon, for the sake of the Palestinians and for the sake of the Israeli state, and the many Israelis who desperately want peace and stability, as well.

@Auvergne63
The IDF actions underway aim to eradicate Hamas.
What was the aim of Hamas with the Oct 7th action?

My post is literally a copy and paste from the Wikipedia entry on Gaza.

Of course they're responsible for their actions, they don't deny their actions.

Have you seen the rampant antisemitism that seems to be prolific in this section of Mumsnet.

I’m anti killing of innocent children.

Me too

It's truly horrific. I fail to understand how anyone can not condemn what's playing out before our eyes. Children are being maimed or dying on a daily basis and little is done to stop this slaughter. This is not going to provide peace for future generations when it stops.

People who don’t want to see antisemitism won’t see it. It doesn’t mean it’s not there, sadly.

Calling out antisemitism is calling out antisemitism. Which needs to be called out, no matter what you think about the Israeli government and their actions.

I am anti the killing of innocent children on both sides. Anti torture, anti kidnapping, anti rape. Anti genocide too.

There needs to be some sort of support from the international community to create a more stable situation.

But just telling the Israelis that what they are doing to stop Hamas is murder, because they should what? be putting up with an organisation that has enacted a pogrom? Saying, ok, we'll tolerate that, and accept it is likely to happen again? I don't think that will work.

The provenance is. Posting that there cannot be a genocide because the Palestinians are having children is of really poor taste.

@WhenIsaywhoaimeanwhoa Thank you for posting these things.

There are, sadly, many people in the world who simply see Palestinian and Muslim lives as worth less than other lives. Those people are unlikely to change their perspectives, so don't let them get to you.

Hamas have really done a good job on the propaganda. They've made large swathes of the west antisemitic despite everyone swearing blind "never again".

You’re being ridiculous. Large numbers of people all across the world are rightfully speaking out against the actions of the Israeli government in its onslaught on Gaza. That has nothing to do with anti-Semitism and everything to do with Israel’s lack of common humanity. The people who are suffering the most, are not the perpetrators of October 7th, but innocent Gazans who have no control over Hamas, which was, let me remind you, funded and encouraged by Israel, when it suited them to ‘divide and rule’ Hamas, and the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank. Israel will not rest until the Palestinians have lost everything. Hamas don’t need propaganda, when we can see it happening before our very eyes.

This thread is bizarre. People seem utterly unable to comprehend that two thoughts can exist at once.

1. Palestine people and kids dying is horrific
2. Hamas have a huge part to play in this and can stop it if they want

Agreeing with B doesn’t in any way equate to disagreeing with A and wanting/ wishing people dead.

I'm really curious how you think Hamas can 'stop this if they want'. 'This' has been going on for decades, long before Hamas. What exactly is it you think Hamas can do that will end Israels occupation and brutal treatment of Palestinians? I'd really like if you could break it down for me.

sure @SpryAmberSeal

1. Hand back the hostages (that are still alive)
2. Leave Gaza and allow the people to form a legitimate rule with a non-terrorist organisation at the helm
3. Enter peace talks.

Before Hamas invaded Israel to carry out a terror attack relations were actually much better than they ever had been between the two peoples and there was a lot of hope for the future.

Also your phrasing sounds suspiciously like you actually are advocating Hamas’s actions.

@WhenIsaywhoaimeanwhoa it is incredibly sad with so many children suffering. I really do hope there is a ceasefire soon from both sides.

@Lockpeopleinrooms

1. Israeli government and IDF have already stated this will not end military action in Gaza.

1. The leadership isn't in Gaza. Any surviving fighters probably have the same difficulties in getting out as other people in Gaza (as in, they can't leave). A new leadership of Gaza is essential, but not going to be something that happens instantly and without extensive work - this is a process that evolves as part of a ceasefire deal, not something that can be magicked up as a prerequisite to negotiating.

1. The Israeli position and engagement isn't brilliant here. "Please give us all your hostages and resign but we'll still continue our planned military action and potential war crimes" isn't exactly going to encourage people to want to sit down and talk.

Before Hamas invaded Israel to carry out a terror attack relations were actually much better than they ever had been between the two peoples and there was a lot of hope for the future.

What makes you that? 2023 was set to become the deadliest year for Palestinian children in the Westbank before 7/10. It was well reported that settler violence was getting worse and that the situation was escalating so I am curious where you claim that relations were 'better than ever' is coming from?

So you are saying you believe that if Hamas leave Gaza Israel will withdraw as an occupying force? This is despite the Israeli government pouring more money into illegal settlements and despite Netanyahu saying he won't agree to a 2 state solution. How do you forsee Israels illegal occupation ending if Netanyahu doesn't agree to it? You think them disappearing will just make Netanyahu change his mind on his long held beliefs?

I didn't advocate anything. You said that Hamas can end things now if they want to, asked how. Personally I don't think Hamas can end Israels occupation, that's why I asked how you think they can.

It’s an incredibly complicated situation and I don’t pretend to have all the answers. The start point though HAS to be hostages freed and Hamas removed. No respected country can negotiate with a terrorist organisation.

The whole purpose of Hamas is to eradicate Israel and Jews. That is literally their purpose for being and why they are funded by Iran. What on earth do people think "From the river to the sea" means?

Absolutely agree with this

Israel withdrew in 2005. They no longer occupy Gaza and haven't done so for nearly 2 decades.