Page 37 | Israeli Eurovision: how low can you go?

Redebs · 2024-03-04T09:21:52+00:00

Israeli entry in Eurovision song contest is likely to be a song called 'October Rain' sung by trans-identifying 'Eden 'Golan'. My previous thread was deleted for pointing this out.

Limesodaagain · 15/05/2024 07:23

I’ve honestly got better things to do so I won’t be replying to any more of these type of posts . If it pleases you to imagine I’m not Irish and Irish people all think like you and there are no generational differences that’s fine .

mollyfolk · 15/05/2024 07:25

Limesodaagain · 15/05/2024 07:16

“Yes do explain”
I really object to the tone people adopt on here. Do you speak to people in real life with contempt?

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It was just a strange thing to say. I had missed the fact that you are in the UK. I don’t think I’m showing you any contempt.

Of course Irish people don’t think the same. But it’s not a polarising topic here either. It’s not a generational thing.

PeasfullPerson · 15/05/2024 07:43

Things I’ve learnt from this thread…

The real bad guys here are Ireland, not the Israeli government or the IDF, who are
actually responsible for the current and ongoing death and destruction in Gaza.

We should judge people not on whether they support the mass killing of innocent civilians, but on how outlandish their outfits are. In my personal opinion these outfits sound pretty bad, but I’m
less offended by this than by the submission of a political song by Israel.

Anyway, none of this is really the singers fault, she isn’t pulling any of the strings, and she’s only 20.

ConnieCounter · 15/05/2024 09:26

mollyfolk · 15/05/2024 07:25

It was just a strange thing to say. I had missed the fact that you are in the UK. I don’t think I’m showing you any contempt.

Of course Irish people don’t think the same. But it’s not a polarising topic here either. It’s not a generational thing.

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Exactly. Anyone living in Ireland would know that broadly there's political and public consensus in supporting Palestine. That's why I asked.

GivePeaceAChance · 15/05/2024 09:30

Limesodaagain · 14/05/2024 19:18

That’s an interesting link @Dulra.
I think you’re a lot younger than me -your Ireland is probably different from mine. I think you genuinely care about the injustice being done to Palestinians but just be careful that that your passion for justice for one group doesn’t blind you to hate for another.

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This is the post that shocked @mollyfolk , @ConnieCounter and myself

‘You must be younger than me- your Ireland is different to mine’

mine = ownership.

We don’t know you, so when you state the above and talk about something with ‘knowledge’ because it’s yours ( mine ) then posters will take your post as fact.
Support for the Palestinians, very briefly, goes back to British involvement and the after affects which we are seeing today and have been for a long time. The Irish have a long and sad history due to the same British involvement.

GivePeaceAChance · 15/05/2024 09:33

ConnieCounter · 15/05/2024 09:26

Exactly. Anyone living in Ireland would know that broadly there's political and public consensus in supporting Palestine. That's why I asked.

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There was no mention of the poster living in the UK. I don’t trawl through peoples posting history to find out stuff about them. I take comments as seen.

Limesodaagain · 15/05/2024 09:37

GivePeaceAChance · 15/05/2024 09:30

This is the post that shocked @mollyfolk , @ConnieCounter and myself

‘You must be younger than me- your Ireland is different to mine’

mine = ownership.

We don’t know you, so when you state the above and talk about something with ‘knowledge’ because it’s yours ( mine ) then posters will take your post as fact.
Support for the Palestinians, very briefly, goes back to British involvement and the after affects which we are seeing today and have been for a long time. The Irish have a long and sad history due to the same British involvement.

Show quote history

”mine” doesn’t always equal ownership. “My Ireland “ just means “the Ireland I know” .
It means Ireland is not just one entity - there is a multiplicity of views and experiences. I’m sorry that you shocked by my post. I think there are far more important things to be shocked by than the fact that some Irish people feel differently from you.
You don’t need to lecture me on Irish history. I’m well aware.

Limesodaagain · 15/05/2024 09:40

GivePeaceAChance · 15/05/2024 09:33

There was no mention of the poster living in the UK. I don’t trawl through peoples posting history to find out stuff about them. I take comments as seen.

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Likewise no mention that I live in Ireland.You’ve made assumptions. I’m Irish. Have an Irish passport. Live in the UK. ( there are quite a few of us)

Limesodaagain · 15/05/2024 09:43

Not sure you three are so focused on my comment to @Dulra Or why you’re so shocked about it

GivePeaceAChance · 15/05/2024 09:45

Limesodaagain · 15/05/2024 09:37

”mine” doesn’t always equal ownership. “My Ireland “ just means “the Ireland I know” .
It means Ireland is not just one entity - there is a multiplicity of views and experiences. I’m sorry that you shocked by my post. I think there are far more important things to be shocked by than the fact that some Irish people feel differently from you.
You don’t need to lecture me on Irish history. I’m well aware.

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Mine does actually mean something belonging to the speaker.

the generational comment may relate to other countries but given what Irish people of older generations have had to experience in Ireland up until very recently centres their support for the Palestinian people.
Three people living this and aware of this found your comment weird.

Your clarification that you do not live in Ireland has now explained everything
Thankyou.

Liv999 · 15/05/2024 10:02

GivePeaceAChance · 15/05/2024 09:45

Mine does actually mean something belonging to the speaker.

the generational comment may relate to other countries but given what Irish people of older generations have had to experience in Ireland up until very recently centres their support for the Palestinian people.
Three people living this and aware of this found your comment weird.

Your clarification that you do not live in Ireland has now explained everything
Thankyou.

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👏👏

SharonEllis · 15/05/2024 12:20

GivePeaceAChance · 15/05/2024 09:30

This is the post that shocked @mollyfolk , @ConnieCounter and myself

‘You must be younger than me- your Ireland is different to mine’

mine = ownership.

We don’t know you, so when you state the above and talk about something with ‘knowledge’ because it’s yours ( mine ) then posters will take your post as fact.
Support for the Palestinians, very briefly, goes back to British involvement and the after affects which we are seeing today and have been for a long time. The Irish have a long and sad history due to the same British involvement.

Show quote history

Oh for goodness sake, this is looking like bullying of @Limesodaagain. Its just a turn of phrase that suggests one person has a different experience to another. Can't believe this is still going on (& on) on this thread.

keenforhelp · 15/05/2024 12:22

The silent majority in Europe supported Israel. Very significant indeed.

Scirocco · 15/05/2024 13:29

That's not what the data shows.

Eurovision is not a poll for or against a political position, country or side in a conflict. A vote for a contestant does not automatically equal support or opposition to a particular viewpoint as many people will have different decision-making processes, which do not necessarily require someone to vote for a country's entry on the basis of political views. The question being asked in Eurovision is "which song do you like best?", so cannot provide robust data on "do you support Israel's military action?" or other similar questions.

Then there's the matter of who's doing the voting. Some regular voters boycotted, some people with strong political views decided they would not vote, some people who wouldn't ordinarily vote decided to vote for political or prejudiced reasons, etc. Voters in this Eurovision cannot automatically be assumed to be a representative sample for a population survey.

But, for the sake of argument, let's say people voted for a particular country if they supported that country's military action against a country that wasn't participating. The opposite position would be for someone opposing that military action to vote for someone else... but who? There would be 24 other entries that could be voted for. So even if people were voting or not voting for a country based on that issue, statistically it would be expected for the entry that has a monopoly on one viewpoint's voters to do better under the current voting system.

keenforhelp · 15/05/2024 13:57

Scirocco · 15/05/2024 13:29

That's not what the data shows.

Eurovision is not a poll for or against a political position, country or side in a conflict. A vote for a contestant does not automatically equal support or opposition to a particular viewpoint as many people will have different decision-making processes, which do not necessarily require someone to vote for a country's entry on the basis of political views. The question being asked in Eurovision is "which song do you like best?", so cannot provide robust data on "do you support Israel's military action?" or other similar questions.

Then there's the matter of who's doing the voting. Some regular voters boycotted, some people with strong political views decided they would not vote, some people who wouldn't ordinarily vote decided to vote for political or prejudiced reasons, etc. Voters in this Eurovision cannot automatically be assumed to be a representative sample for a population survey.

But, for the sake of argument, let's say people voted for a particular country if they supported that country's military action against a country that wasn't participating. The opposite position would be for someone opposing that military action to vote for someone else... but who? There would be 24 other entries that could be voted for. So even if people were voting or not voting for a country based on that issue, statistically it would be expected for the entry that has a monopoly on one viewpoint's voters to do better under the current voting system.

No, the data shows that many, many people loved the song and love Israel!
Yay!

stormy4319trevor · 15/05/2024 14:13

How many people in each country watched and voted during EV, does anyone know? I've asked my friends, colleagues and family if they watched and they looked puzzled and said 'nah, it's crap,' so I'm not sure who the audience are. I didn't watch or vote, but never have done. I saw a few entries on YT and thought Croatia wasn't too bad, but wasn't keen enough to break the habits of a lifetime.

anotherlevel · 15/05/2024 14:16

Scirocco · 15/05/2024 13:29

That's not what the data shows.

Eurovision is not a poll for or against a political position, country or side in a conflict. A vote for a contestant does not automatically equal support or opposition to a particular viewpoint as many people will have different decision-making processes, which do not necessarily require someone to vote for a country's entry on the basis of political views. The question being asked in Eurovision is "which song do you like best?", so cannot provide robust data on "do you support Israel's military action?" or other similar questions.

Then there's the matter of who's doing the voting. Some regular voters boycotted, some people with strong political views decided they would not vote, some people who wouldn't ordinarily vote decided to vote for political or prejudiced reasons, etc. Voters in this Eurovision cannot automatically be assumed to be a representative sample for a population survey.

But, for the sake of argument, let's say people voted for a particular country if they supported that country's military action against a country that wasn't participating. The opposite position would be for someone opposing that military action to vote for someone else... but who? There would be 24 other entries that could be voted for. So even if people were voting or not voting for a country based on that issue, statistically it would be expected for the entry that has a monopoly on one viewpoint's voters to do better under the current voting system.

Also that it could be that Pro Palestinians may not have participated in the vote and if they had done, In sure this would have affected the results.

Kandalama · 15/05/2024 14:26

Scirocco · 15/05/2024 13:29

That's not what the data shows.

Eurovision is not a poll for or against a political position, country or side in a conflict. A vote for a contestant does not automatically equal support or opposition to a particular viewpoint as many people will have different decision-making processes, which do not necessarily require someone to vote for a country's entry on the basis of political views. The question being asked in Eurovision is "which song do you like best?", so cannot provide robust data on "do you support Israel's military action?" or other similar questions.

Then there's the matter of who's doing the voting. Some regular voters boycotted, some people with strong political views decided they would not vote, some people who wouldn't ordinarily vote decided to vote for political or prejudiced reasons, etc. Voters in this Eurovision cannot automatically be assumed to be a representative sample for a population survey.

But, for the sake of argument, let's say people voted for a particular country if they supported that country's military action against a country that wasn't participating. The opposite position would be for someone opposing that military action to vote for someone else... but who? There would be 24 other entries that could be voted for. So even if people were voting or not voting for a country based on that issue, statistically it would be expected for the entry that has a monopoly on one viewpoint's voters to do better under the current voting system.

Your post also aligns exactly with Professor Cunninghams analysis from the Technical University in Dublin.
I think it was posted here earlier
He also points out that each voter gets 20 votes.
So whilst some may chose a variety of their favourites others may chose for political reasons to vote for the same country 20 times.

Italy for example had a 22% majority for Ukraine in the year after the Russian invasion. Whereas this year they had a 40% majority for Israel. This % is unprecedented and in his professional opinion there was a lot of 20times voters doing so politically.

quantumbutterfly · 15/05/2024 14:34

PeasfullPerson · 15/05/2024 07:43

Things I’ve learnt from this thread…

The real bad guys here are Ireland, not the Israeli government or the IDF, who are
actually responsible for the current and ongoing death and destruction in Gaza.

We should judge people not on whether they support the mass killing of innocent civilians, but on how outlandish their outfits are. In my personal opinion these outfits sound pretty bad, but I’m
less offended by this than by the submission of a political song by Israel.

Anyway, none of this is really the singers fault, she isn’t pulling any of the strings, and she’s only 20.

Always interesting to learn something.

Scirocco · 15/05/2024 14:43

keenforhelp · 15/05/2024 13:57

No, the data shows that many, many people loved the song and love Israel!
Yay!

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I'm sure many people did and do, but the data you've got isn't conclusive proof of what has been claimed.

EasterIssland · 15/05/2024 14:58

keenforhelp · 15/05/2024 13:57

No, the data shows that many, many people loved the song and love Israel!
Yay!

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How is the song doing in Spotify ? How does it compare to other singers that have taken part?

and the song in YouTube the viewings how does it compare to other songs ? Or iTunes ?

25milesfromhome · 15/05/2024 15:04

EasterIssland · 15/05/2024 14:58

How is the song doing in Spotify ? How does it compare to other singers that have taken part?

and the song in YouTube the viewings how does it compare to other songs ? Or iTunes ?

Edited

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You could look these things up?

EasterIssland · 15/05/2024 15:05

25milesfromhome · 15/05/2024 15:04

You could look these things up?

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Is there anything wrong with the question?

25milesfromhome · 15/05/2024 15:09

EasterIssland · 15/05/2024 15:05

Is there anything wrong with the question?

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Not at all but if I wanted to know or discuss this I’d find the information for myself and then post it here, seems a bit odd to expect others to do the work.

ScrollingLeaves · 15/05/2024 15:11

I saw this from 6 May but maybe it reflects a general, un self conscious rating:

The top most popular in order according to this were Italy,
the Netherlands and France.

Which Eurovision 2024 Song Dominates Streaming Platforms? - ESCplus

www.esc-plus.com/which-eurovision-2024-song-dominates-streaming-platforms/
www.esc-plus.com/which-eurovision-2024-song-dominates-streaming-platforms/#:~:text=Italy's%20Angelina%20Mango%20and%20her,after%20winning%20the%20Sanremo%20Festival.