Israeli Eurovision: how low can you go?

[Redebs]

Israeli entry in Eurovision song contest is likely to be a song called 'October Rain' sung by trans-identifying 'Eden 'Golan'.

My previous thread was deleted for pointing this out.

Well I guess if you ask members of ISIS or similar they would probabaly say Hamas are a legitimate political organization but it's generally accepted by everyone else that they are terrorists.

It’s really not generally accepted by everyone. Perhaps in the USA and Europe, but that isn’t the entirety of the world.

It’s not just other terrorist groups that don’t consider Hamas to be a terrorist organisation, the UN doesn’t even consider Hamas to be a terrorist organisation. If you want to know specific countries - Google is your friend. But I’ll start with one - Turkey.

In the interest of fairness, let’s not forget the Israeli soldiers murdering and raping young girls during the Nakba. There is recorded footage of now old men admitting and laughing about it. Conveniently forget that don’t you?

Do you know when the Nakba was? This thread could go on forever if we are going to bring in historic events. I suspect she did not 'forget' the Nakba but maybe thought it wasn't relevant to this conversation about 2024.

No idea but I did see this yesterday

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/hamas-cited-un-infographics-show-17-drop-in-total-women-children-gaza-war-deaths-within-2-days/

Israel suffered an horrendous attack last October what's wrong with them singing about it?

@Vivi0 do you honestly think Hamas is not a terrorist group?

I don't know Vivi0 but they were just responding to another poster who was saying Hamas aren't a far-right political group 🤔 That they are just terrorists. Which is obviously not even remotely a factual statement.

Google is your friend too. I suggest starting with 'antisemitism Turkey'. It might give you an insight into why a country with rampant antisemitism ingrained in its culture & politics might not have designated Hamas a terrorist orgsnisation. I mean we are in a bad place if we are arguing about whether Hamas, sponsored by IRAN, is a terrorist organisation.

Sunnydaysanddaydreams, that’s a good question actually. The terrorist attacked is what the current genocide is based on and the justification behind it. Israel can only carry out what it is doing with the support of western nations. Singing about it is a way of generating this kind of support even during a light hearted singing competition. It is to keep the idea that Israel is always the victim even when they are starving and killing generations of families who had the misfortune of being born Palestinian.

@Humdingerydoo have you seen how many 2000 pound bombs have been dropped on Gaza?
How can anyone question the fatality figures when they are likely to be much much higher it doesn't even take into account those still under the rubble
Awhile ago when the death toll of the children was at 10 thousand I want to an event which displayed the names of every single child who was killed
So many of them were not even one years old. Some didn't even live long enough to be given a name and was just names as the child of so and so

This is the affect of just one 2000 pound bomb and not to mention the force of this deadly bomb can cause organs to rupture from small children and babies even if they aren't hit by shrapnel
The heavy munitions, mostly manufactured by the US, can cause high casualty events and can have a lethal fragmentation radius – an area of exposure to injury or death around the target – of up to 365 meters (about 1,198 feet), or the equivalent of 58 soccer fields in area.

I actually didn't question anything. I answered a question and then said I saw this article yesterday. That was all. I didn't give my opinion. I haven't looked into it. I literally just shared an article I came across yesterday in response to a question regarding that very same topic. But sure, have a go at me.

Moving on -

According to Swedish police a man has been accused of unlawful threats against someone who works for ESC. No one has been arrested but investigations continue.

This is presumed to be about Joost but they haven't confirmed that.

This is from Dutch news saw it on another thread

there was some voting meant to be opened last night for around the world which hasn’t taken place. Ebu hasn’t done any statement so far

No, I didn’t conveniently forget, I just didn’t think it was relevant.

There is really no end of historical events to bring up to bolester each side’s position. Other than diminishing the events of 7 October, what purpose does it actually serve?

Hamas is a terrible organisation (I thought we were agreed on that??) that runs a theocratic dictatorship in gaza. Anyone would question the figures. Its basic good practice in journalism, history, any number of disciplines to assess your evidence and verify things like fatality figures. That's why reputable news outlets usually qualify the figures by pointing out that they are provided by the Gazan health ministry & they are not verified. Reputable organisations have also said at various points that they expect them to be reasonably accurate. All governments in wars are engaged in propaganda and massaging statistics is often part of that so of course you question. There have been questions hanging over these figures throughout. Throwing around the size of bombs just sounds like tik tok talking points.

This, plus also it's not actually the overall numbers that article is even saying have been changed. It's the amount of the deaths being women and children. It seems they've been underreporting the amount of men killed and claiming they're women or children.
Edited to add: based on that one article. Again, I haven't looked into it. I don't know anything more about it.

They CAN sing about it just not at the Eurovision because it is considered political so against Eurovision rules

US State Dept doesn't 'question the figures' and have said on a number of occasions that they are probably an underestimate

They have been dealing with Hamas for a long time so no doubt have the measure of them

And likely have alternative intelligence rather than completely relying on Hamas information

Netanyahu was questioning the figures yesterday wrt number of Hamas fighters killed

.

How how the USSD reach a conclusion that the figures are an 'underestimate' without going through the process of questioning them? To say they are an underestimate is literally questioning the figures.

No one had an issue with Israel defending itself it was the indiscriminate murder of over 40,000 innocent civilians, 14,000 of which are children and starving a population, people take issue with. Why do you hate Palestinians so much that their death in the thousands doesn't bother you?

Well there is a difference between being a politician from a recognised party and thinking you are.
For example, I think I am an astronaut compare to I am an astronaut. Easy stuff to understand.
Finally, to minimise the number of casualties is beyond despicable. Nasty stuff.

They were singing last night for the juries so the Dutch act didn't participate in this. If he stays in the competition I assume the jury vote will be based solely on his performance tonight

If it helps, I'm pretty sure you're the only person who thinks Hamas isn't also a political party. Not even the UN agrees with your assessment.

And please point out where I minimised the amount of casualties?

That's a bit of a literal interpretation of what I said

'Questioning the figures' clearly relates to the repeated suggestion that Hamas is inflating the number of deaths

Not to the US State Dept swallowing them wholesale without question