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Conflict in the Middle East
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94
HeidiInTheBigCity · 29/02/2024 23:34

AliceA2021 · 29/02/2024 23:10

I wish that a peaceful long term solution could be found. @HeidiInTheBigCity there has to be a way

I follow posters on here, even if I do not always comment (I've a personal policy of "don't post when so fucking pissed off that you just lash out in pain").

So ... I know you're a ... broadly speaking "pro-Israel" poster. In the same way that I am also probably a "broadly speaking: pro-Palestine" one - in actual fact: this broad generalisation probably does neither of us justice - people are, after all, capable of "nuance" and "differentiated opionions".

... in any case: it means the literal world to me that you reach out! We probably disagree on about one gazillion details but "just a smidgeon of empathy" is really such a big deal at this point. So, thank you!

(Feel free to DM)

Honeylemonandginger · 01/03/2024 07:45

FOJN · 29/02/2024 21:42

Daniel Hagari is a lying c u next Tuesday. I'm hoping karma is a real thing.

They admitted it earlier, no doubt they are worried about international condemnation so now they're back to lying.

Quite honestly I don't give a fuck how many they actually shot and shelled, people would not be swarming aid trucks if they were not starving.

Can we please stop weaponising the perfectly normal behaviour of starving people and using it to dehumanise the Palestinians further by implying it's evidence they are savages. It's callous and racist.

Totally agree!
How dare they blame starving people for this horror.

FrancescaContini · 01/03/2024 07:56

PeasfullPerson · 29/02/2024 20:01

@Efacsen if that’s the case, then it’s a shame that the premature babies left to rot weren’t enough.

I don’t care “which side “ you’re on and what you’ve written in previous posts: this is an abhorrent way of talking about newborn babies.

iwafs · 01/03/2024 08:02

HeidiInTheBigCity · 29/02/2024 20:19

Thanks for the new thread, OP!

Look, sometimes you are just "out of words to speak, out of tears to cry, out of energy to protest"! I have just been begging and pleading with my (retired) mum "please, mum, I know you are speaking up at any opportunity! Stop onlyb speaking up and start mobilising!"

Literally everyone I know IRL- my mother and her pensioner knitting group included, but also my fellow corporate executives and literally all of the "aspiring professionals" university students that I mentor - knows what is happening and is utterly horrified!

Many of them are still too afraid to say so out loud!

I am not sure whether we still need to be "raising awareness". Awareness has been achieved.

What we need is "enouraging people who are extremely aware, utterly horrified, and want the horror to stop to either a) not have to be afraid that this will cost them their livelihood or b) stop caring [because it would not matter if we reached critical mass]).

Personally, I will most probably be arrested next week. And my firm will most definitely dismiss me for "being arrested on live TV".

So fucking be it! On balance, I pick "being a decent human being" over "a job that pays 250k pa (thereof 200k for the amount of therapy you will need if you continue to go along with this ...)". I hope we make it onto the news! That will have been the whole point!

I would urge you to protect your income.

If you sacrifice a £250k job, I'm not sure how it will help (sorry). I mean, what difference does it make to me personally if you personally have no job?

I'm not trying to take away from what you are trying to do, but the personal cost here is astronomical and the potential gain is negligible (Sorry).

Parkingt111 · 01/03/2024 08:33

The UN held a urgent meeting following the flour massacre yesterday, they put forward a motion that condemned Israel for it and it was vetoed only by the US

Efacsen · 01/03/2024 08:34

Just going back a bit to the discussion on Thread 1 about the pros and cons of delivering food aid by air drop as opposed to by convoys of trucks this what Oxfam have said

Oxfam says US policies contributing to risk of famine in Gaza

Oxfam has said that the group is opposed to potential US plans to airdrop packages of food into Gaza, saying that such efforts cannot cancel out US policies that have contributed to extreme hunger throughout Gaza.

“Oxfam does not support US airdrops to Gaza, which would mostly serve to relieve the guilty consciences of senior US officials whose policies are contributing to the ongoing atrocities and risk of famine in Gaza,” Scott Paul, who conducts humanitarian policy at Oxfam America, said in a statement.

“While Palestinians in Gaza have been pushed to the absolute brink, dropping a paltry, symbolic amount of aid into Gaza with no plan for its safe distribution would not help and be deeply degrading to Palestinians. Instead of indiscriminate airdrops in Gaza, the US should cut the flow of weapons to Israel that are used in indiscriminate attacks.”

Not sure if they posted this before or after the full details of yesterdays tragedy were known and whether there will now be more pressure for air-drops [which also come with risks for the safety of waiting recipients]

Parkingt111 · 01/03/2024 08:40

Jan Egeland the secretary of the Norwegian refugee councils says there are trucks and trucks of aid that are waiting to come in, but Israel has to write away every kilo and they have turned away thousands of trucks of aid. This is the deliberate starvation of the Palestinians

https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1763169654598402350?t=eTorpWBlUoTHKNHFz-fNog&s=19

https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1763169654598402350?s=19&t=eTorpWBlUoTHKNHFz-fNog

Parkingt111 · 01/03/2024 08:44

@Efacsen thanks for that, I agree. I saw how little aid was airdropped to the north for thousands of civilians and I thought the same thing, its making a mockery out of their plight. This isn't the hunger games.

In regards to what happened yesterday the UN has called for a independant investigation, not sure if it will happen

Efacsen · 01/03/2024 08:44

Parkingt111 · 01/03/2024 08:33

The UN held a urgent meeting following the flour massacre yesterday, they put forward a motion that condemned Israel for it and it was vetoed only by the US

Also see that Amnesty have started an investigation which I was pleased to see

It will hopefully provide another viewpoint to the Israeli investigation and make it more possible to come to a balanced view of what happened

Not 100% sold on Amnesty but was impressed with their investigation early in the 'evacuation' when 70 women and children were killed and Hamas and IDF blamed each other. The report was thorough with lots of eye-witness accounts

Efacsen · 01/03/2024 09:00

Parkingt111 · 01/03/2024 08:40

Jan Egeland the secretary of the Norwegian refugee councils says there are trucks and trucks of aid that are waiting to come in, but Israel has to write away every kilo and they have turned away thousands of trucks of aid. This is the deliberate starvation of the Palestinians

https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1763169654598402350?t=eTorpWBlUoTHKNHFz-fNog&s=19

Someone on the previous thread said [wrt Israel stopping visas for humanitarian workers] that every link in the complex chain of providing aid has been subject to negative Israeli interference which I feel is absolutely spot on

Also another poster maybe on a different thread posted the account of an Irish Trauma surgeon very recently returned from Gaza. He said that much needed ventilators are on the dual-use list of banned items and wryly wondered what sort of weapons could be made from ventilators

Also a charity called Wash Up who wanted to supply sanitation equipment found it's
donations impounded as dual use and now languish in warehouses in Egypt

PeasfullPerson · 01/03/2024 09:42

@Efacsen I wasn’t aware that medical items were being stopped from entering Gaza because of their dual use.

Do you think the Israeli government view food and water as similar to dual use? In line with their destruction of Hamas at any cost policy. If they can’t directly kill them, why not indirectly cause their death by other means, regardless of what it means for the rest of the population.

Does seem spot on that they are targeting specific points in the chain that delivers aid to Gaza, don’t forget UNRWA. You have to be a special kind of person to systematically plot the removal of aid (and life supporting structures) in this way.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/civilians-or-hamas-dual-use-issue-complicates-gaza-aid-efforts-2024-01-05/

Efacsen · 01/03/2024 09:51

@PeasfullPerson I knew some medical items were banned for being dual use but until I read the surgeons account didn't know what they were

Yes Israel has stated it's intention to starve out Hamas/turn locals against Hamas - can't quote the particular politicians ATM but was discussed on the second ICJ genocide threat with quotes

UN investigation into UNWRA complaining today that they haven't received the evidence as promised from Israel

LilaDidIt · 01/03/2024 10:31

Israel is refusing visas to members of international NGOs who could help with the distribution of humanitarian aid.

See below, from Haaretz, 25 February 2024:

"The Population and Immigration Authority is refusing to grant work visas to employees of international non-governmental organizations operating in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, precisely when the International Court of Justice is supposed to examine whether Israel is complying with its order on ensuring humanitarian aid arrives into Gaza.

The belated explanation given to the international NGO's was a rearrangement in the process of visa issuance, carried out until now together by both the Population and Immigration Authority and the Welfare and Social Affairs ministry."

10UsernamesNotAvailableTryAnotherOne · 01/03/2024 11:12

inkworks273 · 29/02/2024 20:20

x.com/ramabdu/status/1763280125800452262?s=46

"Graphic Image Warning:⛔️ ⚠️
Our teams today documented Israeli bulldozers running over one of the prisoners who were arrested in the Zaytoun neighborhood, east of Gaza. The @EuroMedHR has previously documented numerous cases of Israel executing and staging Palestinian prisoners."

That's horrible! 😭 The poor man. His hands were zip tied and his legs were bound with rope (there's rope still on one of his legs). This was deliberate murder. 😢 Just when I start to think the IDF can't get any lower, this happens.

10UsernamesNotAvailableTryAnotherOne · 01/03/2024 11:15

HeidiInTheBigCity · 29/02/2024 20:23

Genocidal fascists!

They sure are! 😡 There's no denying that this is a genocide with stuff like that going on. Only the willfully ignorant who are deliberately turning a blind eye believe this isn't a genocide.

Efacsen · 01/03/2024 11:54

Photos online of further food drops by Jordanian air force over Gaza City

Pleased to see they're KOKO so that at least some food is reaching people in need even tho it's not enough

inkworks273 · 01/03/2024 12:13

x.com/omarsuleiman504/status/1763392538482708727?s=46

Emaciated little boy rescued after surviving for days underneath the rubble.

TheABC · 01/03/2024 12:45

Given the scale of destruction with the housing, I felt sure Israel was committing domicide, but I didn't think they would systematically starve the populace.

At this rate, there won't be anyone left to resist when they storm Rafeh after Ramadan. Perhaps that's the goal.

inkworks273 · 01/03/2024 13:08

x.com/nournaim88/status/1763240107446771935?s=46

More footage of the rescue of the little boy who was trapped underneath the rubble with his martyred family for 9 days!!!

ConnieCounter · 01/03/2024 14:29

I'm reeling from the last few days. I can't believe what's happening. And nobody who can stop it, is stopping it. I feel like I'm going mad. And this place isn't helping - definitely more overt pro-genocide posters in the last week which is hard to be around.

I have no words to be honest. I'm beyond horrified at humanity. And at those denying and justifying this carnage.

Efacsen · 01/03/2024 14:30

A little bit of good news and a reasonable compromise that other countries could follow

EU to resume funding to beleaguered UNRWA agency for Palestinian refugees

The EU has said it will resume funding the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine (UNRWA) next week, after the two parties came to an agreement to allow EU-appointed experts to audit the way it screens staff to identify extremists.

Hope this isn't too off topic

Scirocco · 01/03/2024 14:37

Efacsen · 01/03/2024 14:30

A little bit of good news and a reasonable compromise that other countries could follow

EU to resume funding to beleaguered UNRWA agency for Palestinian refugees

The EU has said it will resume funding the UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine (UNRWA) next week, after the two parties came to an agreement to allow EU-appointed experts to audit the way it screens staff to identify extremists.

Hope this isn't too off topic

Alhamdulillah.

LilaDidIt · 01/03/2024 14:46

TheABC · 01/03/2024 12:45

Given the scale of destruction with the housing, I felt sure Israel was committing domicide, but I didn't think they would systematically starve the populace.

At this rate, there won't be anyone left to resist when they storm Rafeh after Ramadan. Perhaps that's the goal.

Well, to be fair, at the start of the war Defense Minister Yoav Gallant vowed that "there will be no electricity, no food, no fuel – everything is being blocked off. We are fighting human animals, and we will act accordingly." So they told us.
I think they know exactly what they're doing. Apparently (I just found out about this) in 2012 it came to light in a released document that Israel had calculated the bare minimum number of calories necessary to keep Gaza residents from malnutrition on order to let just enough food through the blockade. According to a report in Haaretz:

"The "red lines" document calculates the minimum number of calories needed by every age and gender group in Gaza, then uses this to determine the quantity of staple foods that must be allowed into the Strip every day, as well as the number of trucks needed to carry this quantity. On average, the minimum worked out to 2,279 calories per person per day, which could be supplied by 1,836 grams of food, or 2,575.5 tons of food for the entire population of Gaza.

Bringing this quantity into the Strip would require 170.4 truckloads per day, five days a week.

From this quantity, the document's authors then deducted 68.6 truckloads to account for the food produced locally in Gaza mainly vegetables, fruit, milk and meat. The documents note that the Health Ministry's data about various products includes the weight of the package (about 1 to 5 percent of the total weight) and that "The total amount of food takes into consideration 'sampling' by toddlers under the age of 2 (adds 34 tons per day to the general population)."

From this total, 13 truckloads were deducted to adjust for the "culture and experience" of food consumption in Gaza, though the document does not explain how this deduction was calculated."

So we can assume they know very well what amount withheld leads to starvation.

ConstantastheNorthernStar · 01/03/2024 14:51

@LilaDidIt Christ, that's dystopian.

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