Aid workers accused of taking part on 7/10 attack on Israel - appalling !

[Lanabigbanana]

https://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/official-statements/serious-allegations-against-unrwa-staff-gaza-strip

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-palestinian-refugee-agency-investigates-staff-suspected-role-israel-attacks-2024-01-26/

From the Guardian 5 hours ago;

"UK suspends UNRWA support after Israeli allegations The UK has temporarily paused future funding of UNRWA, saying it is “appalled by allegations that UNRWA staff were involved in the 7 October attack against Israel”.
A statement sent to the Guardian by the UK’s foreign, commonwealth and development office said:
'The UK is appalled by allegations that UNRWA staff were involved in the 7 October attack against Israel, a heinous act of terrorism that the UK government has repeatedly condemned.

The UK is temporarily pausing any future funding of UNRWA whilst we review these concerning allegations.'

We remain committed to getting humanitarian aid to the people in Gaza who desperately need it."

@EasterIssland

"Which yet hasn’t been proven to be true"

I totally agree that it has yet to be proven true which in any event will be extremely difficult to do one way or the other given that a number of them are already dead.

However this is different to the point that @Kindatired was making, which was that out of 12,000 staff it wouldn't be surprising if it was true.

My objection is with the use of the phrase "being involved in criminal activity" to describe being a member of a brutal terrorist organisation .

This is not about a bit of dealing weed or car theft or even street robbery- it's about being part of a terrorist organisation that killed 1,200 people including women and children and then kidnapped 240 more.

Personally I would describe this as bit more than simply "being involved in criminal activity " and to do so is a disgusting and deliberate attempt to minimise the horrific events of 7th October.

This has been covered over and over. There is an independent investigation ongoing to find out the extent of what happened and who was involved. UNWRA immediately dismissed the people identified by Israel, without proof. The majority of posters on this thread from the beginning welcomed that but questioned the decision by many counties to defund the organisation at a time when people were starving to death. The situation was bad back then and now it is catastrophic, with 50% of children in Gaza now malnourished (up 49% since before October) and children dying daily of starvation. This is what most posters were angry about and it is welcome to see some countries starting to reinstate the aid because it has become clear Israel are incapable of delivering it safely to the people that need it.

@Dulra

Did you actually read my post, which covers 3 points - I'll restate it if it helps:

1. I totally agree that it has yet to be proven true which in any event will be extremely difficult to do one way or the other given that a number of them are already dead.

2. However this is different to the point that @Kindatired was making, which was that out of 12,000 staff it wouldn't be surprising if it was true.

3. My objection is with the use of the phrase "being involved in criminal activity" to describe being a member of a brutal terrorist organisation .

How many people live in a place where they are subject to occupation, apartheid and indiscriminate killing and conviction? This is not a normal place to live for Palestinians in particular.

Out of any random 12,000 people you find thieves, wife beaters , child abusers, thugs of all descriptions.In addition, if there is a political void that fosters a terrorist agenda you will get people joining terrorist groups and find every shade of terrorist brutality- intimidation of locals, carjacking, extortion, drug, knee-capping, beatings, suicide bombs and sexual violence.
What pre employment screening do think would prevent recruitment of these individuals @anotherlevel ?
Are line managers responsible for monitoring the out of hours activities of their direct reports?
Can you sack a person because you suspect their brother in law or other family member is a bit dodgy?
Or would you prefer to see UNWRA disbanded and let the Israeli government take over its role?

@Kindatired just checking were you meant to @ me?

“Out of any random 12,000 people you find thieves, wife beaters , child abusers, thugs of all descriptions.”

@Kindatired this is an excellent observation. 12,000 employees in UNRWA, is approximately the same size as the London Metropolitan police force which had Wayne Couzens on it who kidnapped, raped and brutally murdered Sarah Everard in a premeditated and planned attack. The same police force with David Carrick who plead guilty to 24 counts of rape early last year. In total, there have been 119 convictions out of 600 reports of sexual violence by Metropolitan police officers. Yet we don’t call the Met the arm of a sex trafficking gang do we? We recognise that within any organisation that large, there will be some of the worst, most violent criminals hiding within it.

For Israel to prove their allegation that UNRWA is an arm of Hamas with at least 10% of employees being Hamas terrorists, I would expect a lot more evidence. At least enough to convict 100 employees beyond any reasonable doubt.

So far, Israel has not presented anything near sufficient evidence to show their vetting system is poor, and certainly nothing to indicate that UNRWA is an arm of Hamas and should be disbanded.

Editing to add that terrorism is a crime. It isn’t a minor crime like shoplifting or kicking a dog, it ranks among the worst of crimes along with serial killers, serial rapists and child abusers.

Yes, I think halting funding during a humanitarian crisis when there was no alternative to get humanitarian aid to these civilians- mostly innocent families was the wrong decision for the U.K. and others to make. I am no expert, but it seems to me to be collective punishment? That is causing deaths of children and elderly from starvation, and deaths of all age groups from lack of medical care from injuries caused by the war.

I think of the Met, would we stand down and tell all police officers in London they are sacked because of Wayne Couzens and David Carrick while investigating them and then others? Stop all policing until we know the Met has zero sex offenders on the force? All platitudes that it would be for our safety to ensure no more serial rapists and murderers prowling London in the uniform of a police officer, would be shown to be silliness as with zero police enforcing law and order in London, criminals would quickly take advantage and chaos would erupt and many innocents would die or be injured or robbed because of this.

It isn’t the right, ethical response to the problem.

@Polka83

"How many people live in a place where they are subject to occupation, apartheid and indiscriminate killing and conviction? This is not a normal place to live for Palestinians in particular."

Just so I understand your point correctly, given the above are you saying that it's not surprising then that some become terrorists?

I don’t condone anyone’s violence.
Things don’t happen in a vacuum.
What the IDF are doing in Gaza is terrifying. It wouldn’t have happened without 7/10.
7/10 wouldn’t have happened without Palestinians feeling violated themselves. Can’t condone either really.

This is bit of thread derail but I found your use of saying this wasn’t “normal criminality” also doesn’t capture that these aren’t ordinary circumstances.

Sorry finger fumble

@Kindatired Not a problem :)