Aid workers accused of taking part on 7/10 attack on Israel - appalling !

[Lanabigbanana]

https://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/official-statements/serious-allegations-against-unrwa-staff-gaza-strip

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/un-palestinian-refugee-agency-investigates-staff-suspected-role-israel-attacks-2024-01-26/

From the Guardian 5 hours ago;

"UK suspends UNRWA support after Israeli allegations The UK has temporarily paused future funding of UNRWA, saying it is “appalled by allegations that UNRWA staff were involved in the 7 October attack against Israel”.
A statement sent to the Guardian by the UK’s foreign, commonwealth and development office said:
'The UK is appalled by allegations that UNRWA staff were involved in the 7 October attack against Israel, a heinous act of terrorism that the UK government has repeatedly condemned.

The UK is temporarily pausing any future funding of UNRWA whilst we review these concerning allegations.'

We remain committed to getting humanitarian aid to the people in Gaza who desperately need it."

What makes you so sure that Hamas is a response to Israel?
What makes you so sure it isn't?

The Hamas Charter. I suggest you read it.

Are you actually serious with that question??

@Auvergne63 As I said, there are similar organisations in other countries. Hamas is allied with the Muslim Brotherhood, an alliance between terrorist groups in Palestine and a lot of other countries including Egypt. I don’t think you can reasonably blame the Israelis for the ideology of pan-Islamism and the terrorist organisations which support it. It seems plausible to me that Hamas would exist no matter how Israel behaved. One of their founding goals is to destroy the state of Israel and kill all of the Jews in the world. As long as Israel dares to exist and Jews dare to live, they are an affront to Hamas and Hamas will keep trying to kill them. You can’t reasonably expect Israelis to give up their country and all commit suicide to placate a terrorist organisation, but it seems like that is what it would take for Hamas to make “peace” with Israel.

"It seems plausible to me that Hamas would exist no matter how Israel behaved"

That is completely and utterly skirting over the cruel and inhumane treatment that has been happening all these years.

It is human nature to not want to be oppressed.

@BackandForthRoundandRound I don’t doubt that no one wants to be oppressed.
Had the Palestinian leadership and wider Arab world accepted the 2 state solution in 1948 then no one would have been oppressed. Unfortunately we don’t have a time machine to go back and tell Egypt, Transjordan, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq not to try to invade Israel. That obviously doesn’t mean that everything Israel has done since is fine, but it does go some way to explaining why Israel has acted as it has over the years. There have been multiple attempts at a 2 state solution, rejected by the Palestinian leadership because they don’t want Israel to exist. If it were not for Iron Dome, the Palestinian bombs would kill far more Israelis even today. Israel is understandably defensive when that’s their neighbour’s attitude. It must be extraordinarily difficult to live a normal life when you know that a few kilometres away there are terrorists practising to murder you, and every country surrounding yours would like to see you dead. Israel cannot afford to relax and approach the situation with a high tolerance to risk, because if that risk doesn’t pay off, it’s the end for them. There have been plenty of occasions when Israel crossed the line, absolutely! But it seems like you think Israel should be approaching Hamas as if certain branches of Palestinian leadership and allies hadn’t spent the last 75 years repeatedly calling for a genocide against Jews and doing everything in their power to enact it.

You can’t reasonably expect Israelis to give up their country and all commit suicide to placate a terrorist organisation

Yet Palestinians are expected to give up theirs. Every day a bit more is taken as settlers steal their homes. Everyday, drip, drip, drip. They aren't allowed to fight back, they aren't allowed to defend their homes, they aren't allowed to use fear as an excuse for bad behaviour. They are expected to sit back and watch as Israel steal their land bit by bit. Sit back as their husbands and sons are stolen in the dead of night and tortured by the IDF. Sit back as their children are killed. Sit back as their children are abused on the way to school every morning by settlers under the protection of the IDF. Drip, drip, drip. There is no right for Palestinians to defend themselves. No outcry when their children are stolen. No outcry when their people are murdered. Israel isn't expected to give up anything, Israel is supported as they take homes and take lives.

"It must be extraordinarily difficult to live a normal life when you know that a few kilometres away there are terrorists practising to murder you"

Yes, what it is like for the people in Palestine.

You are conveniently leaving out the important reason why there has been rejection. The border line.

Perfectly said. This is exactly what is expected yet it is twisted around. Utter madness.

You are aware that sounds as though you have an issue with Islam??

Very well said.

@ProfessorPipsqueak
Yet Palestinians are expected to give up theirs. Every day a bit more is taken as settlers steal their homes. Everyday, drip, drip, drip. They aren't allowed to fight back, they aren't allowed to defend their homes, they aren't allowed to use fear as an excuse for bad behaviour. They are expected to sit back and watch as Israel steal their land bit by bit. Sit back as their husbands and sons are stolen in the dead of night and tortured by the IDF. Sit back as their children are killed. Sit back as their children are abused on the way to school every morning by settlers under the protection of the IDF. Drip, drip, drip. There is no right for Palestinians to defend themselves. No outcry when their children are stolen. No outcry when their people are murdered. Israel isn't expected to give up anything, Israel is supported as they take homes and take lives.

Your comment is beautifully written and clearly heartfelt.
I said that Hamas (according to their own charters and spokesmen) will only be happy when Israel is entirely gone and there are no Jews left in the world. I think it’s inaccurate to pretend there is the same level of hostility from Israel to the Palestinian people, although I don’t doubt there is to Hamas. Israel has agreed to a 2 state solution several times over the last 75 years. It’s disingenuous to pretend that Israelis want to wipe out Palestine as Hamas wants to wipe out Israelis and all other Jews. If that’s what they wanted to do, they could already have done it. We’re comparing a western, liberal, democratic state with a terrorist organisation, they’re clearly not morally equal!
There are no settlements in Gaza and there has been no Israeli presence in Gaza for 20 years, so I presume you’re talking about the West Bank. Perhaps you’ve noticed what withdrawing from Gaza achieved (the empowerment of a terrorist organisation who organised the biggest pogrom since the Holocaust). Here safely from the UK, I can easily say that settlements are wrong and should be dismantled. But I think if I lived in Israel I wouldn’t want to withdraw the IDF from the West Bank now, because then Israel would have the risk of October 7th type attacks from 2 sides.
The whole situation is obviously a tragedy, and far too many innocent people have suffered far too much. But you can’t pin your hopes for peace on Israel behaving irrationally and endangering the lives of its citizens on a crazy gambol that it might work out. It’s a democracy and of course no one would ever vote for a government who proposed risking the massive chance of increase in terrorist violence aspiring to genocide (i.e. exactly what happened last time they withdrew from Palestinian territory) in the tiny hope that the other side might have been lying when they said they wanted to kill all of the Jews. Idealism isn’t going to fix this and pragmatism doesn’t work if you’re relying on one side shooting itself in the foot.

@TrigTannet
Please can I ask your thoughts on Netanyahu encouraging the development of Hamas

« Most of the time, Israeli policy was to treat the Palestinian Authority as a burden and Hamas as an asset. Far-right MK Bezalel Smotrich, now the finance minister in the hardline government and leader of the Religious Zionism party, said so himself in 2015.
According to various reports, Netanyahu made a similar point at a Likud faction meeting in early 2019, when he was quoted as saying that those who oppose a Palestinian state should support the transfer of funds to Gaza, because maintaining the separation between the Palestinian Authority in the West Bank and Hamas in Gaza would prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state. »

I understand this article was written in anger given the date- but completely appropriate anger not just towards Hamas?

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/amp/

"I think it's inaccurate to pretend there is the same level hostility from Israel to the Palestinian people"

There have been countless Israelis calling for death to the Palestinian people, wanting them "eradicated" countless amounts of things along these lines. They have not been shy about voicing their true feelings towards Palestinians.

For you to actually try to pretend that is not the case is unbelievable, it really is.

Yes, the British were being shot at by both sides, however the overall barbarity, size of attack and level of deaths and injuries inflicted were overwhelmingly inflicted by the Jewish terrorist organisations.

From killing British soldiers at point blank range whilst they slept in tents in a car park in Tel Aviv
https://www.rarenewspapers.com/view/700065
to kidnapping, hanging, then booby trapping the bodies of 2 British soldiers (so that they exploded when cut down) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sergeants_affair

This documentary gives a good summary of everything that happened, with testimony from some insurgents and British officers.

@Desertrose2023 "There are some posters (one in particular who probably utilizes multiple usernames) who like to spam threads which a revisionist version of history that they present as fact. It’s quite bizarre."

Not as bizarre as your 'conspiracy theory'.

You can't have multiple user names on a thread unless you have multiple accounts, which isn't allowed.
However, if you suspect this it should be reported to MN HQ.

Maybe you should do that ?

I’m not suggesting multiple usernames are being used on the same thread. Just that the NC of some posters across different threads is obvious from the content and style of posting.

Again, if you think somebody/bodies is 'spamming' that should be reported as well.

news.sky.com/story/israeli-intelligence-report-claims-four-unrwa-staff-in-gaza-involved-in-hamas-kidnappings-13059967

Here is a link to a Sky News report where they have been shown the evidence by Israel for its claim that 4 UNRWA staff in Gaza were working with Hamas.

“The Israeli intelligence documents make several claims that Sky News has not seen proof of and many of the claims, even if true, do not directly implicate UNRWA.”

Actually you can have one account and have multiple usernames.

Yes, but not on the same thread.

^^

@Lanabigbanana you can

Well, that's news to me. 🤔