Eliminate Hamas……At any the cost ?

[Itoosurvive]

Israel’s aim is to eliminate Hamas’ fighters.

So far it has cost 25,000 Palestinian lives.
Approximately 300 members of the IDF have been killed.
According to US intelligence (Rad 4 news 18.00 21-1-2024) between 20% and 30% of Hamas' fighters have been killed.
Approximately 65% of buildings have been destroyed.

So, the IDF is about a quarter of the way through the task they have been set.
The following question is directed at anyone who supports the current campaign to remove Hamas.

When does the loss of life become great enough to call a halt to the operation, or should it carry on until Hamas is eliminated, regardless of the cost?

edit, Title should read "At any cost"

Great question. It'll be interesting to see what people have to say.

I put it to you though, that eliminating Hamas isn't their true goal and that it's just the excuse they're using to ethnically cleanse Gaza. I believe that is their real aim.

100% agree. The premise that their primary aim is to eradicate Hamas, or even free the hostages, is laughable at this stage. Even the Americans aren’t buying it. It’s land grab all the way. They’re trying to starve out those in the North who are refusing to leave but Palestinians have learned by now that if you leave your land it’s game over. They are prepared to die on their land, even by thirst and hunger, rather than leave to allow a repeat of the past.

@Itoosurvive

Got a reputable source for those numbers?

@inkworks273

Big claims require big evidence. Show us your working, please.

The safe return of the Israeli hostages is not a priority. The sheer scale of the destruction including hospitals, schools and universities makes it look much more like clearing the way to resettle the land, especially after seeing the plans for the artificial island they want to see the Gazans sent to.

Big claims require big evidence. Show us your working, please
Israel has been accused of attempting ethnic cleaning in Gaza a few times. It may or may not be true but it’s not just an idea plucked out of thin air as your trying to imply.

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2024-01-13/ty-article-opinion/.premium/what-do-israeli-ministers-mean-by-voluntary-migration/0000018d-03b6-d832-a59d-17b760ec0000?lts=1706170293922

https://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-in-talks-with-congo-and-other-countries-on-gaza-voluntary-migration-plan/amp/

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-minister-calls-voluntary-emigration-gazans-2023-11-14/

Hamas should surrender, spare their children and see them settled in secure housing without war.

@Fussandmisery You do realise the same claims could be made about Hamas, don't you? Though I think they skipped the migration camp part and went straight for the pogrom part.

"From the river, to the sea..."

You do realise the same claims could be made about Hamas, don't you? Though I think they skipped the migration camp part and went straight for the pogrom part.
Yes I do realise that. Although you could argue carpet bombing a trapped population is also a massacre.

What’s the alternative? What would you have Israel do? They are at war with terrorists who don’t want peace.

How are they even going to know they have eradicated Hamas? I don’t think anyone really believes that’s what they are doing. The slaughter of the Palestinians is something so horrific I just can’t see how anyone can defend it.

The alternative is keeping Hamas at any cost. Despite unfounded accusations, Israel cannot be considered to have undertaken genocidal actions by any rational analysis. Hamas and Palestine have though and genocide is written into their political mandate. Hamas will just start another war.

Massive numbers of Palestinian deaths are constantly being bandied around as well. Palestine has areas that are war zones so difficult to access and monitor as well as a large population on the move resulting in obvious uncertainty about how many and who is in a particular area at any time. We are also told they have no electricity or internet access which again makes it extremely difficult to know where people are. As a comparison, it took weeks to confirm the number of Israeli dead in the terrorist attack committed in a small area. So how on earth can any reasonable person accept those numbers as anything but unfounded and evidence free?

The worry is that Israeli lack of proportionality is now a recruitment tool for Hamas. How will the conflict ever end, then?

The alternative is to stop slaughtering innocents and stop creating a world where these sort of atrocities happen. Every life is precious. Enough is enough.

@Alltheprettyseahorses I don't see any country except perhaps Israel questioning the death toll anymore. They are quite open with the amount of strikes they have carried out which is over twenty thousand, so not sure why twenty five thousand deaths is unbelievable.
The death toll is acturally likely to be alot higher than that because those trapped and dead under the rubble are not included.

Most of Israels allies including the US are always going on about how Israel needs to minimise civilian casualties so it's quite apparent that they do actually believe how many people have been killed
Which is a astonishing amount in such a short space of time

The “what alternative does Israel have?” comments are just grotesque at this stage. How anyone has the audacity to ask this given the scale of Palestinians killed, carnage and decimation of civilian infrastructure, is beyond comprehension at this point.

Really? I don't see anyone accepting the completely evidence-free numbers claimed by Hamas any more. The strikes are aimed at specific targets in areas where the population has been warned and asked to leave, are they not? 20k missiles doesn't mean 20k different targets as each target will have numerous missiles directed at it. Palestine has fired over 11k missiles itself in perpetrating its war.

I am neither Israeli nor Jewish btw. The aside about Israel seems designed to shame which is odd and rather unsettling, especially as it's Hamas that has no credibility.

Hamas is an IDEA. In 5-10 years from now we'll be seeing this very same old song and dance. Nothing has changed, and nothing will change until the two sides grow up and learn to share.

Hamas and Palestine had an alternative. They started this war with their genocidal terrorist attack, are perpetrating it right now and have broken and refused every attempt at ceasefire. They want a war, they can't make that any more explicit, so silly crying and handwringing about it is beyond pointless. The situation has to be dealt with.

@Alltheprettyseahorses I didn't say you were either. What is shameful are those trying to minimise the suffering of the Palestinians. And the US also discredited the figures at the start but soon after stopped when it became clear how destructive the bombing in Gaza is

The U.S. State Department’s highest official for Middle East affairs said that the civilian death toll in Gaza is likely higher than estimates suggest, noting that skepticism over the integrity of the statistics released by health authorities in the Hamas-run enclave may undercut the scale of the human catastrophe.
Asked at Wednesday’s House Foreign Affairs Committee hearing about skepticism over the numbers released by the Gaza Health Ministry, Barbara Leaf warned that the numbers may fall short. “We think they’re very high, frankly, and it could be that they’re even higher than are being cited,” said the Assistant Secretary of State for Near Eastern Affairs. She added that in times of war it is difficult to get an accurate assessment. “We’ll know only after the guns fall silent.”

I have read that it will take ten years to eradicate Hamas ( I will try to find the link).

The al-Ahli Hospital debacle springs to mind.

Even if they succeed and eradicate all of hamas.., what then? Do they think there will be that, hamas gone, done and dusted??
There will be a whole generation of young people who have experienced great loss, unimaginable trauma. They will rightly be angry. Angry at Israel and angry perhaps with the west for allowing it to happen. That's how these things tend to go.

I think the accusations of genocide against Israel are both calculated and mendacious. Accusing a people who were victims of the Holocaust of being agents of genocide is wicked in the extreme.

David Icke would be proud.

Could someone please explain why Hamas just rejected Israel's offer of a 2 month ceasefire in return for the hostages?