"The only purpose of these endless marches is to intimidate British Jews" (part two) ***MNHQ has tweaked the title in order to make the quote more clear***

[stomachameleon]

Only the few apparently........these pictures are from todays March. Footage to follow..

He definitely said ‘we must normalise massacres’

https://x.com/yosefyisrael25/status/1746428035992011063?s=46&t=vKGM6xpoeW3wdlaVVVagQA

But I do think he meant to say “not normalise massacres”

That doesn’t make the rest of what he said ok.

This is from his post on X. He's allowed to misspeak and he doesn't care anyway.

"Obviously not an idiot and would never say that. I was clearly saying we shouldn't be complacent, we shouldn't normalize massacres. Willfully distorting my words is an indication of your own bankruptcy. I'm allowed to misspeak. Also: idagf. Call the police! Write a Yelp review!"

I was really confused too. But I was hesitant to ask on here
Apparently he has clarified that he misspoke and it was meant to be we must NOT normalise massacres

He definitely said "we must" and he knows exactly what he was saying IMO.

Ah thanks, that does clarify.

Although you can’t complain about people distorting your words when they are accurately reporting what you actually said.

And he had just been talking about wiping out the death cult of Zionism so, y’know, not that much of a stretch.

He put up a transcript of his speech which he pre prepared as a tweet later which reads we must not normalise
But again it doesn't excuse some of the other remarks

I don't particularly agree with him but what you've said here doesn't follow. If you tried swapping Zionist to jews in this speech none of it would make sense, and it would create sentences that even rabid antisemites don't believe. Eg "Zionism is a settler colonial institution". Nobody actually believes that jews are a settler colonial institution.

There may be examples of people using antizionism as a cover for antisemitism, but this isn't one of them. If you actually consider the words used in that clip, they only make sense when talking about zionism and it's clear that's what is meant.

He's a rabid antisemite anyway so I'm in no mood to give him the benefit of the doubt so whether or not he said "we must" (which he did!) feels quite academic in the grand scheme of the rest of his shit.

And yet the very title of this thread claims that it does.

He definitely says “we must normalise massacres”

It doesn’t make sense though. He meant to say “we must not normalise massacres”. He is talking about Gaza not October 7th.

That quote is from Richard Littlejohn who is widely acknowledged to be a terrible person. I would rather the thread discussing the marches didn’t have his quote as the title but that is how the original thread started.

No. It achieves nothing. It only prolongs suffering, murder, rape and war, for hundreds of years in many cases, hatred passed down through the generations. And as for 'valid to hate certain groups'. What 'groups' are you talking about? Jews? Palestinians? This hatred of groups you seem to be ok with is directly leading to the deaths of thousands of children in Gaza right now and led to the October attacks in Israel.
Be a better person.

There may be examples of people using antizionism as a cover for antisemitism, but this isn't one of them.

There "may" be. 🙄

if I had the inclination I could probably copy and paste hundreds of examples from X from the last day alone. (And I'm generally pretty restrained on actually accusing folk of being antisemites unless I'm sure).

You used an absolute that suggested hate is never right.

Are you suggesting it's wrong to hate PIRA/Hamas for thousands of murders and atrocities?

Peaceful settlements themselves do NOT require an absence of hatred. All that's required is the bare minimum of toleration for the existence of the other.

In other words, "don't let perfect be the enemy of good". A requirement for the absence of hate is that.

Things only have to be good enough. The Belfast Agreement is an example of good enough being enough.

I see our resident Zionist is out in full force

A majority of Jews identify as Zionist, in some form. So that's pretty fucking offensive. I'm one, but I don't support Israel's ongoing military action in Gaza (or what you term "the genocide" - it's not).

So have at it, or don't. We can only consider each example claimed on its merits.

In this particular example, a claim was made that a tirade against zionism is actually a coded tirade against jews, which make no sense whatsoever and can't be justified by any actual consideration of the words.

This may just be laziness or oversight. Or maybe the person making the claim simply considers ALL antizionism to be coded antisemitism by definition. If so it would be more honest if they said that, so we could debate that position.

A majority of Jews identify as Zionist, in some form.

Do you mean jews worldwide, UK jews or something else?

apple.news/Apf8F00AoSI2-nUPpFhOm7A

Think it's pretty clear what he 'meant'

And his reaction after speaks volumes.

@windowframer Who is "the person in question"?

In this particular example, a claim was made that a tirade against zionism is actually a coded tirade against jews, which make no sense whatsoever and can't be justified by any actual consideration of the words.

Ok, what does "wipe out the Zionist death cult" mean?

Zionism is the support for the establishment/existence of the Jewish State of Israel.

There are lots of people who think that Israel shouldn't exist, and should disappear from the map. People on these marches, in fact.

So when "from the river to the sea" was chanted, some people pretended it was about liberating Palestinians, not getting rid of Israel.

And when people say "end the occupation" the claim is that they mean the West Bank, when actually there are people who consider the whole of Israel to be occupied Palestinian territory.

Wipe out the Zionist death cult is a clear signal that they want to eradicate Israel. They want it to no longer exist.

I'm sure some will try to pretend that's not what it means but I think those protestations are getting increasingly weak.

So, these people are calling for the eradication of Israel. To deny that this has anything to do with antisemitism and purely to do with Israel deserves closer scrutiny.

The question is: do you think that they would be calling for the eradication of Israel if it wasn't a Jewish state (the only one in the world, in fact). Do you think they would be saying this if it were a Muslim state?

There are plenty of other, even newer countries in the region where people have been displaced and land has been grabbed. Are there calls to wipe them off the map?

And then, when you look at groups like the Houthis who don't even bother to hide it, they say "Death to Israel, a curse upon the Jews". The anti-Israel sentiment and the antisemitism are clearly linked.

So denying that this sort of fervent antizionism isn't at all linked to antisemitism or motivated by it doesn't really wash.

Obviously there are useful idiots who don't really understand the implications of what they are saying, but I'm pretty sure this guy does.

In this particular example, a claim was made that a tirade against zionism is actually a coded tirade against jews, which make no sense whatsoever and can't be justified by any actual consideration of the words.

Made perfect sense to me. He said for instance "we must reject Zionism in all our institutions...we must de-Zionise". Given that a majority of British Jews believe in and support the existence of a Jewish homeland, do you really not understand what this actually means?

Yes, it is wrong to hate Hamas on mass. As it is wrong to hate any group. Don't you see, hate spreads. It doesn't stay in it's neat little 'type'. It spreads to their children and their neighbours, and other people who look like them, or have the same religion as them. This is the case throughout history. I would bet some of them are little more than groomed children throwing stones and they have been groomed to hate in your words 'certain groups with certain behaviours'. And please don't try to twist my words and turn me into some sort of apologist for their rapes and murders. All your talk of hate poisons the future though. I very much doubt the negotiators of the GFA went into the room spitting hatred at each other. They had to put it aside to make any kind of progress.
As I said.
Be a better person.
If you can.

@noblegiraffe excellent post.

Every bit of this.