South Africa has invoked the Genocide Convention against Israel over Gaza

[HeidiInTheBigCity]

The entire filing is 84 pages long and, frankly, took me several hours to read - it's well worth the effort, though, in that it is rather (painfully at times) clinical and devastating in equal measure: https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf

Go, South Africa!

It might not male that much of a difference in the short term - but: to see the former victims of Apartheid take the lead on the world stage, and offer support (the way they - after multiple decades of campaigning and pressure ... it's not as though world leaders hated Apartheid South Africa "by default") is just ... a little spark of light within the darkness!

I'm a bit confused @BelleHathor how can US claim not to know what the weapons they are supplying are being used for given that

-Biden has complained about 'indiscriminate bombing'
-US intelligence confirmed that only 50% of the weapons are guided
-600 of the 2000lb bombs for battlefield use have been used in urban areas

These facts are fairly well known - not any kind of secret

Completely agree.

@Efacsen that's a fair point
I can't believe 600 two thousand pound bombs have been used 😳

The US only used ONE of those with their war with ISIS that is how devestating the impact is.
And Israel has used 600?? In a space as densely populated as Gaza

The UK has similar laws. The Export Control Act 2002.

This control will only be invoked, and a licence application refused, where it is assessed that the export would be capable of having a ‘relevant consequence’.

This is as set out in the Schedule to the Export Control Act 2002, and described as:

a threat to the UK’s national security
having an adverse effect on peace, security or stability
an act threatening international peace and security
an act contravening the international law of armed conflict
an act of internal repression
an act that breaches human rights
an act of carrying out (or of acts which facilitate) acts of terrorism or serious crime

I know that RAF transport planes are making almost daily trips from Cyprus to Tel Aviv but I don't know what we are transporting or if we are transporting weapons whether they are ones we supplied or we are just air freighting US supplied munitions.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/10/hamas-covenant-israel-attack-war-genocide/675602/www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2023/10/hamas-covenant-israel-attack-war-genocide/675602/

https://www.ajc.org/news/5-reasons-why-the-events-in-gaza-are-not-genocide

This article talks about the impact of the usage of such bombs. And it would explain why there are over 20 thousand killed and over 50 thousand injured which includes thousands of children.

The heavy munitions, mostly manufactured by the US, can cause high casualty events and can have a lethal fragmentation radius – an area of exposure to injury or death around the target – of up to 365 meters (about 1,198 feet), or the equivalent of 58 soccer fields in area.

https://edition.cnn.com/gaza-israel-big-bombs/index.html

@Parkingt111 I know! - I checked it because it seemed such a huge number - it's from satellite imagery counting the number of craters more than 40' across reported by CNN in November

I don't think it's plausible for any government who is supporting Israel's assault in Gaza to plead ignorance. I would treat any attempt to do so as gaslighting or an admission of gross incompetence.

@Efacsen I just remembered that article too
Linked it above
I'm hoping the ICJ hearing will spell it out in black and white for those still in doubt about the indiscriminate bombing in urban areas which contravenes IHL

Thanks I'll read that later

I wouldn't bother. It's just a rehash of the points on here, starting with a definition of genocide which they have created themselves. And implying that Hamas' actions justify the harm caused to civilians.

Luckily there is a court with experience who can look at the actual evidence impartially, because it's almost impossible to know whats true and what's not from reading the media

That's the thing it is just a claim. They know what is happening, we know that they know what is happening.

America currently has satellites and drones monitoring the war. There have also been rumours of special forces on the ground in Gaza, who will be feeding back real time intelligence to the USA of the exact state of the battlefield.

The Biden administration has just bypassed congressional oversight and failed to produce the required State Department assessment, likely on purpose. This allows for them to acknowledge this failure in the future and put the blame of some unknown State Department employee whilst still supplying their ally Israel.

Basically it's all smoke and mirrors, soundbites to appear like they actually care about Palestinian civilians, whilst not actually following their own procedures.

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/emergency-arms-sale-to-israel-undermines-accountability/

Thanks for that @BelleHathor

This rather long but interesting article details what is likely to happen as a result of any ruling by the court

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/04/stakes-high-as-south-africa-brings-claim-of-genocidal-intent-against-israel

Wow turkey definitely knows what genocide is, having waged it against the Kurds, Armenians and expelled the Greeks. Both they and Malaysia support this because they’re anti Israel, not because they’re anti genocide/ pro Palestine or have a moral high ground of any kind.

Don't be ridiculous. If "having the moral high ground" were necessary to bring a claim to the international court, no-one could ever do it.

I'm sure the court will see straight through it if this is motivated by "anti Israel" sentiment and there is no case to answer.

@AdamRyan and as a very good example of this the entirely pro-Israel US has in the past been referred to the court WRT genocidal actions in Iraq

@Weefreetiffany the fact that turkey is involved is laughable.

Accidentally posted on the wrong thread:

So, apparently, it would seem to be Malcolm Shaw - not Dershowitz - representing Israel at the ICJ hearing next week - or at least this is what several sources are reporting.

A way less puzzling choice than Dershowitz, if true, in that he is, in fact, specialised in international law.

You're welcome . It's a different perspective but I still don't think that SA should be lauded for what they are doing given their human right's history. Though I suppose, to some people, and certainly not any posters on this thread, perhaps any country invoking a convention against a Jewish state will be praised.

Just my opinion - no need to delete this post though I expect it will be.

Callous?

I support a ceasefire but I do not agree it is a genocide.

Not sure why i got deleted but your post didn't
People, including the government's of countries, can be anti the Israeli government's action in Gaza without being "against a Jewish state"
Its interesting to me that you interpretation concern about Palestinian citizens as somehow "anti Jew".

Just for context, genocide is:
any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
— Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide, Article 2[7]

I'm not a lawyer, but I think the "total siege" of Gaza (as defined by the Israeli government) is relevant to clause (c)
And the indiscriminate bombing is relevant to clause (a).

Not related to genocide, but relevant to ethnic cleansing are Smotrich's comments
"What needs to be done in the Gaza Strip is to encourage emigration," Smotrich told Army Radio. "If there are 100,000 or 200,000 Arabs in Gaza and not 2 million Arabs, the entire discussion on the day after will be totally different."

He said if the 2.3 million population were no longer there "growing up on the aspiration to destroy the state of Israel", Gaza would be seen differently in Israel.
"Most of Israeli society will say 'why not, it's a nice place, let's make the desert bloom, it doesn't come at anyone's expense

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-minister-repeats-call-palestinians-leave-gaza-2023-12-31/