South Africa has invoked the Genocide Convention against Israel over Gaza

[HeidiInTheBigCity]

The entire filing is 84 pages long and, frankly, took me several hours to read - it's well worth the effort, though, in that it is rather (painfully at times) clinical and devastating in equal measure: https://www.icj-cij.org/sites/default/files/case-related/192/192-20231228-app-01-00-en.pdf

Go, South Africa!

It might not male that much of a difference in the short term - but: to see the former victims of Apartheid take the lead on the world stage, and offer support (the way they - after multiple decades of campaigning and pressure ... it's not as though world leaders hated Apartheid South Africa "by default") is just ... a little spark of light within the darkness!

No your not... www.jewishnews.co.uk/british-barrister-to-represent-israel-at-icj-in-fight-against-gaza-genocide-claim/

Yeah, that is the one I meant and posted about earlier.

Far more sensible pick than Dershowitz (see my earlier posts: personally controversial, "showy", and literally no international law experience - Shaw has plenty, and has published extensively ...).

I might not be an Israel supporter - but I do take some hope from the notion that, at the very least, if push comes to shove even this government appears to be susceptible to reasonable thought.

Have you read the 84 pages of evidence ? I doubt you have if this is what you are saying.

Of course the American Jewish Association would say that. Not exactly a unbiased source is it.

A quick read

https://mearsheimer.substack.com/p/genocide-in-gaza

Excellent article, thanks Desertrose2023.

I'm 100% a Mearsheimer fan, he is often excluded from mainstream discourse as his Realist theory goes against the MSM narratives.

This covers what we were all discussing yesterday:
".....even though the South African application focuses on Israel, it has huge implications for the United States, especially President Biden and his principal lieutenants. Why? Because there is little doubt that the Biden administration is complicitous in Israel’s genocide, which is also a punishable act according to the Genocide Convention. Despite his admission that Israel is engaged in “indiscriminate bombing,” President Biden has also stated that “we’re not going to do a damn thing other than protect Israel. Not a single thing.”6 He has been true to his word, going so far as to bypass Congress twice to quickly get additional armaments to Israel. Leaving aside the legal implications of his behavior, Biden’s name – and America’s name – will be forever associated with what is likely to become one of the textbook cases of attempted genocide..."

That article captures my thoughts perfectly without the hyperbole/appeal to emotion that is so common in articles about the conflict (e.g. the "5 reasons...." article linked above)

You are right, you are not a lawyer. Your post makes that clear.

Several prominent human rights lawyers have already agreed with Adam anyway. So their summary is informed even if they is they are not a lawyer.

South Africa seems a bit selective in what they object to:

https://twitter.com/Daniel_Sugarman/status/1743264754351628657

Massacres in Darfur? No problemo - welcome, friend!

Well it is South Africa!

Anyway it's not a genocide despite "prominent" lawyers' opinions.

It's up to a judge as a lawyer's opinion means nothing and no more than a layman until the judge decides.

And I assume you're a judge right seeing as you're saying it's not a genocide.

Actually it's up to 15 judges, as people who have read the submission and learned about the process would know.

Whataboutism is not a defence and won't be much use in court in 6 days.

BTW the covert and overt racism and racist comments unleashed towards South Africa by pro Israelis and their openly racist right wing supporters is not great PR. Great way to alienate the majority of the Global South.

Scotland's first minister has said Israel's actions in Gaza are tantamount to ethnic cleansing

And he also supports the investigation of war crimes

Mr Yousaf said he supported any probe launched by the International Court of Justice (ICJ) and International Criminal Court (ICC).
He added: "We should be encouraging them to investigate any potential breaches of humanitarian law, any potential war crimes that have been committed, and all the way up [to] genocide.
"Of course, these potential war crimes should be investigated.
"I don't know how anybody could disagree with that investigation taking place."

He also calls for Hamas leaders to be held to account and the release of hostages
His statement in full

https://news.sky.com/story/israel-gaza-latest-hamas-war-updates-sky-news-blog-12978800?postid=7019029#liveblog-body

And I think it's tantamount of importance for every single person to raise their voice and say that what we're seeing from Israel, the indiscriminate attacks we're seeing, go far beyond a legitimate response.
"They look now like vengeance and have done, I have to say, for quite some time.

• *I 100% agree with the above and so glad to see him using his voice to speak up against the inhumane atrocities we are seeing everyday in Gaza.

I 100% agree with everything in this article - floodlight, you are right, there is no genocide here:
(JNS) Israel has criticised South Africa for taking a genocide case against Israel to the International Court of Justice in The Hague over its prosecution of the war in Gaza.
In a move praised by the Hamas terror group, Pretoria accused Jerusalem of violating its obligations under the 1948 Genocide Convention by intending “to destroy Palestinians in Gaza as a part of the broader Palestinian national, racial and ethnic group.”
Israel’s Foreign Ministry responded to the ICJ filing in a statement, saying that South Africa was participating in a “blood libel” against the Jewish state.
“South Africa’s claim has no factual and judicial basis and is a despicable and cheap exploitation of the court,” the statement read.
The ministry further claimed that “South Africa is collaborating with a terror group that calls for the destruction of the State of Israel,” in reference to Hamas.
Additionally, the ministry accused Hamas of attempting “to carry out genocide” on October 7, when some 3,000 heavily armed terrorists crossed the Gaza border into Israel to murder 1,200 people, wound thousands more, and take 240 hostages back to the Strip.
Hamas also engaged in acts of rape, sexual abuse, torture and mutilation during the bloody hours-long rampage across the north-western Negev.
Also, the ministry emphasised that the IDF does not target civilians in Gaza and is only interested in targeting terrorists.
“Israel has clarified that the residents of the Gaza Strip are not the enemy. We call on the International Court of Justice and the international community to reject the baseless claims of South Africa out of hand,” the statement concluded.
Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu also said Israel displayed unparalleled "morality" in the Gaza war and rejected South Africa's charge that it was committing "genocidal" acts.
"We will continue our defensive war, the justice and morality of which is without peer," Netanyahu told a cabinet meeting in Tel Aviv.
"No, South Africa, it is not we who have come to perpetrate genocide, it is Hamas. It would murder all of us if it could. In contrast, the IDF (Israeli army) is acting as morally as possible."
For its part, Hamas praised South Africa for initiating the legal proceedings against Israel, with the terror group saying in a statement that “we highly appreciate South Africa’s move to submit a request to the International Court of Justice to initiate proceedings to investigate the Zionist entity’s criminal act of committing genocide against our Palestinian people in the Gaza Strip.”
Hamas called on other countries to submit similar requests “against this Nazi entity.”
The Nazi genocide against the Jews in Europe was one of the main drivers for the adoption of the Genocide Convention by the United Nations in 1948.
“It is a grave misstep that the South African government, amid a myriad of pressing domestic and international issues, has singularly chosen to target Israel by referring it to the International Court of Justice in the Hague,” according to a statement by the South African Zionist Federation.
“This move seems designed to distract from the government’s own spectacular domestic failures, and only serves to squander South Africa’s dwindling international standing on a misguided action.
“Labelling Israel’s actions as ‘genocide’ is not only false but Orwellian, contradicting the very definition of genocide as outlined in the Genocide Convention. The sole perpetrator of genocidal acts in this conflict is Hamas, a globally recognised terrorist organisation. Hamas’ charter and actions, including the horrific events of Oct. 7, clearly demonstrate its genocidal intent and abilities against Israel and the Jewish people. This while other minorities including Christians are being attacked in the region at the same time,” added the statement.
Last month, Israel recalled its ambassador to South Africa for consultations after the country’s ruling African National Congress (ANC) accused the Jewish state of “genocide” in Gaza.
ANC spokeswoman Mahlengi Bhengu-Motsiri had said that: “We cannot sit back and watch the genocidal actions of the Israeli regime.”
The move came two weeks after Pretoria recalled its diplomats from Israel.
South African Foreign Minister Naledi Pandor spoke by phone with Hamas chief Ismail Haniyeh on October 17, less than two weeks after the terror group’s assault on southern Israel.

https://www.thejc.com/news/israel/south-africa-files-international-court-of-justice-case-accusing-israel-of-genocidal-acts-in-gaza-tyej9172

Who is the Global South and why would they be alienated by random posters on MN saying they think because of SA's record on human rights, it feel strange and ironic that they are trying to invoke a genocide convention?

Well Sky, this case, even if it proceeds will take years .

Maybe Hamas should release the hostages, apologise and sign an undertaking not to keep launching rockets into Israel and dial back on their promises to obliterate Israel. Until then, whilst I don't agree with everything Bibi is saying and doing, you cannot blame Israel for wanting to keep its borders secure after such pronouncements from Hamas.

Floodlight - what will be interesting if whether this SA case will be criticising Hamas for their acts which some say amount to genocide too. It will be interesting to say the least.

@Skyisthelimit7 thank you for posting the article from the JC.
I found this comment very erudite and resonated with me:

"Labelling Israel’s actions as ‘genocide’ is not only false but Orwellian, contradicting the very definition of genocide as outlined in the Genocide Convention. The sole perpetrator of genocidal acts in this conflict is Hamas, a globally recognised terrorist organisation. Hamas’ charter and actions, including the horrific events of Oct. 7, clearly demonstrate its genocidal intent and abilities against Israel and the Jewish people. This while other minorities including Christians are being attacked in the region at the same time,” added the statement."

@Skyisthelimit7 thank you too for posting the Jewish Chronicle article as it gives a different perspective to the case.

So, South Africa (one of the few governments backing Russia against Ukraine) and the SNP think Israel’s actions are genocide and ethnic cleansing?

I think we can rest easy that they aren’t, then.

@floodlightonwhatisright I just watched channel 4 news and it highlighted the epidemic there with femicide. A women suffers GBV every three hours.

www.genocidewatch.com/single-post/south-africa-50-000-cases-of-gbv-and-femicide-annually

I didn't know that @WhatsTheUseOfWorrying . Are they really backing Russia?