Opinion piece in newspaper -RICHARD LITTLEJOHN: The only purpose of these endless marches is to intimidate British Jews.

[floodlightonwhatisright]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-12878659/RICHARD-LITTLEJOHN-marches-intimidate-British-Jews-tolerate-hatred-streets.html

He raises some interesting ideas.

@quantumbutterfly I find those stories particularly heartbreaking. The peace activists who were manipulated over time by people they thought were friends who used information against them and allowed them to be slaughtered.

That's how terrorism works isn't it? Destroying the trust between individuals, creating divisions of fear and anger and widening them. Divide and conquer.
In Christianity we are taught to turn the other cheek, it certainly goes against Darwinism.

That's how terrorism works isn't it? Destroying the trust between individuals, creating divisions of fear and anger and widening them. Divide and conquer.

Totally this

I just wish that more other people understood this

I just wish that more people understood that years of settler abuse, being thrown out of their homes, being blockaded and imprisoned, unlawful detentions, and many thousands of deaths over the past few decades will lead to trauma, hopelessness for the future, deep anger and a violent response to violence. As the UN said, October 7th did not come out of a vacuum.

Although I feel that quite a few posters understand this very well - they just don’t care. To them there is no excuse for Hamas killing innocent people - yet every excuse under the sun for Israel doing exactly the same thing, both before and after Oct 7th and magnified many times over.

As the UN said, October 7th did not come out of a vacuum.

Itcame out if a deep hatred of Jews.

The marches are against Gaza civilians being killed, which is well known.

This also caught my eye from the bbc evening news today:

"There is strong opposition to the current Netanyahu government, seen as the most right-wing in Israeli history."

So why are we surprised at his radical and outrageous approach?

Not sure anyone is surprised he is doing this are they???

Plus we have been told for weeks he is very unlikely to survive the next election

Sadly I believe a lot of people don't understand why the comment is horrendous

They are just seeing it as a sound bite and a justified way to respond to the pogrom

It isn't like people don't know any of the history or issues such as Jew hate. However this is a nice little comment to make as far as they are concerned, it lets Hamas off the hook a little etc

But why is murdering innocent people ok when Israel does it but not when Hamas does it?

Alas, not just terrorism, but also extremist governments and even the US and UK when it has suited their international political agenda to create divisions and widen them.

Israel is, imo, really just bombing its way towards the increased influence in the region of countries hostile both to the West and Israel, no doubt to the satisfaction of Russia and Iran. There are useful idiots on all sides - and none more idiotic than the likes of Netenyahu, who thought his policies of divide and rule were very clever, but actually succeeded in nothing more than inciting more hatred and simultaneously helping to fund it.

There is just no way to cover up the fact that Palestinians need a state of their own every bit as much as there needs to be a Jewish state of Israel - and it will be one highly unlikely ever to be sympathetic towards either the West or Israel (even if not actively aggressive), given the past and present experience of Palestinians. It’s all deeply depressing.

Very much looking forward to the day Netenyahu is ousted and I very much hope a more civilised Israeli government can be formed to deal with the consequences of his failed, manipulative strategies which did nothing more than show his contempt for the people he thought he could manipulate.

I actually did write a long reply for your first post saying this. However deleted it before sending

The very short answer I will give you here is that I see most regular users actually posting that the mass civilian deaths are not right. That the current Israeli government need to go at the next election. However as they also are on threads making sure false or iffy information is corrected, trying to reason with the odd poster that thinks Hamas are resistance some users think they doing what you believe they are doing

I can't convince you that most people really are not making excuses for civilian deaths but perhaps sometimes the odd user could word things better or be more clear. However I do believe that to be the case. I mean on the main conflict threads this may be different I don't know but on the threads I have used only the odd occasional poster or new poster does as you say.

That is my personal take but I get you won't agree or believe it

I like your analysis @Walkaround

Oh and there is a fair amount I could say and some other people may say about the way you words this post. However I get what you mean because it is a follow on from your last post. However it is a good example of how sometimes reading a single post we all could get an impression about the writer and their meaning that is not quite as it seems

@Walkaround
Exactly what I think

@Trulywonderful
Believe it or not I don’t hate Jewish people or want Israel to fail. But I honestly think that Netanyahu and many of the other Israeli politicians have been so bad for Israel and for the surrounding region, promoting and exacerbating nothing but trauma and hatred. I am baffled as to why so many people just can’t see it.

There is just no way to cover up the fact that Palestinians need a state of their own every bit as much as there needs to be a Jewish state of Israel - and it will be one highly unlikely ever to be sympathetic towards either the West or Israel (even if not actively aggressive), given the past and present experience of Palestinians. It’s all deeply depressing.
I agree with this paragraph
But - There are a number of manipulators on both sides - not just Netanyahu

I think that is just it on both sides there are people that are manipulating the conflict. Whether that be the Israeli government or Hamas/Iran etc.

Also both sides have exstemists supporters that are doing a cracking job of causing a divide and sometimes unrest

Personally I see it as our job here to at least try to stop some of the unrest or manipulation to cause divide affect our own communities and where we live. These people must not divide our communities and cause hate for innocent people in the middle east or the west.

I agree that there are manipulators on both sides. I also think upset and defensiveness on both sides cause ordinary people to misunderstand each other, to talk at cross purposes and to think they disagree more than they do.

Do you acknowledge that Israel has been mistreating Palestinians for decades though? That's the context alluded to in the quote.

He also said in the same speech that he condemned Hamas. He explicitly blamed Hamas for killing, injuring and kidnapping civilians. He explicitly blamed Hamas for the launching of rockets against civilian targets and he said that the grievance of the Palestinians cannot justify the terrorist attacks by Hamas.

I think everyone here agrees that Palestinians have been mistreated by both their leaders and various Israeli governments at different points. Don't they? However that doesn't excuse the vacuum comment in the aftermath of the pogrom does it.

It was and is a very poor way to argue that Israel had it coming. That is not the way to talk about a massacre of majority civilians. Plus at the time it was made a certain amount of just say the pogrom was horrific and nothing could justify it should have happened. However people decided to go below the belt and whatabout a shocking pogrom involving torture, rape, murder and kidnap plus the terrorist that did it live streaming it to families.

Long term I think yes people could can debate the why and cause of feeling about Israel Hamas or Gazens may have. However that was too soon anda terrible use of words. Even know I would argue that people should use there words carefully and not just sound bites. It has literally been only a few months and hostages are still held. Many families and there friends are still going through great never ending emotional pain. I am always carefully to be respectful about Gazen deaths because of their loved ones. It is not a one sided thing and I don't find deaths a flippant political argument to use to score points.

He still should not have worded things the way he did. It is now just a sound bite for others to use and whatabout the pogrom

Free debate about the conflict or why Arabs have issues with Israeli political behaviour towards Gaza or the west bank civilians is fine. That should be spoken about. However whataboutism of a vacuum whenever people are talking the pogrom details is not OK.

It’s not merely a soundbite. It’s what a lot of people think. But having someone of such experience and authority articulate it publicly makes it clear that it’s not merely the view of someone who is “mentally ill” or a “terrorist sympathiser” or a “useful idiot”, which is precisely why I paraphrased it. And yes, he did (rightly)condemn Hamas actions but he made sure to (rightly)condemn the Israeli government’s too.

And Smotrich’s comments yesterday are pretty inflammatory. How anyone can say Israel isn’t promoting hatred in the region is beyond me.

He is an individual in a right wing government. Do you know any Israelis? These comments are not reflective of anyone I know.
Israel is promoting hatred? What a horrible sweeping generalisation.