IDF shoot hostages in Gaza after 'mistakenly identifying them as a threat'

[Struggggggling]

https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/idf-kill-israeli-hostages-mistakenly-identifying-hamas-gaza/

Previous hostages warned this would happen, tragic events. There is no winner in this conflict only losers.

Do you think Israel will now change tactics or if any histage swaps will take priority?

These men were waving a white flag. The hostages were just more innocent victims of the war and Israeli tactics, which appear to be that anyone is a legitimate target, because Hamas could be hiding behind any one of them. It is jarring to listen to the remorse felt for Israelis being killed when Palestinians are just treated as necessary collateral damage in the war on Hamas. Those Israeli men were legitimate targets under Israel’s current strategy - because they were in Gaza and moving when Israelis with guns were present.

Why do you think they own up? Maybe it's because they, this time, couldn't dismiss it?

It somehow got leaked almost immediately to the Israeli press and then was reported worldwide

it is my opinion

Whether you believe it or not, the Israeli forces are claiming that Hamas are using babies incubators to hide weapons, and are deliberately using hospitals and children’s playgrounds as cover.

If this is not outright lying, then the target is Hamas, and the civilian (including the vulnerable) casualties are a really horrible, unfortunate and inevitable consequence of the air strike, but they are not the target.

the comparison was between the face to face killing of children vs killing them from afar in this particular war.

That is not the comparison. It isn’t any better if the deliberate torture, rape and killing as a war tactic, which deliberately targets the vulnerable, was directed remotely ‘from afar’.

The comparison is to deliberately target the most vulnerable, and perpetrate the most sadistic crimes against them in order to cause maximum terror and horror, on the one hand, or causing harm, including maiming and death, to the most vulnerable, even unnecessarily, or carelessly, but inadvertently, through targeting the enemy.

I know. It has to be a joke, right?

Identifying people by what they look like is not racist. Are passport photos and divers’ licenses racist because people are identified by what they look like Iwasafool?

Of course not but the officers following him were convinced they had the right man because he had "Mongolian eyes". That sounds pretty racist to me.

Sky news military analysts talks further about the situation today
He also mentions there seems to be many inexperienced soldiers who shoot first and ask questions later

'The IDF chief of staff has sternly admonished soldiers since Friday that, according to the rules of engagement, shirtless people surrendering with white flags, like the hostages (who also called in Hebrew to be saved), should not be killed. But it’s also true that Israeli soldiers have been shooting Palestinians for years with little or no punishment – whether it’s an autistic man in East Jerusalem or an incapacitated Palestinian attacker already immobilised on the ground. Just two weeks ago, a Jewish Israeli who intervened in a terror attack in Jerusalem was shot dead by IDF soldiers. The one-way road to Friday’s nightmare was paved by the de facto indulgence of shoot-first policies.'

In the guardian today.

It said in the report today that the injured hostage who retreated into the building came back out after ceasefire was shouted and was shot dead.

The jittery soldier line just doesn't wash. Those poor men.

Whether you believe it or not, the Israeli forces are claiming that Hamas are using babies incubators to hide weapons, and are deliberately using hospitals and children’s playgrounds as cover

If this is not outright lying, then the target is Hamas, and the civilian (including the vulnerable) casualties are a really horrible, unfortunate and inevitable consequence of the air strike, but they are not the target

That i'm afraid is of little comfort to the families of the babies/children/mothers in the hospital/school/house blown to bits, the end is the same and there will be many more who will carry horrific injuries and in Gaza die terrible deaths over many days, as there is little treatment.

Its like the IRA used to say "Yes well the target was those RUC guys in a pub, very sorry we killed a family or two"

The British didn't usually retaliate in kind

There has to be a better way or the IDF is no better really.

I dont recognise the difference you mention. Hasnt the IDF committed an awful lot of "tragic errors", with the thousands of civilians dead. Its not an error, its collective punishment and a war crime. Even Biden cant avoid condemning it now.

Well, I think @Bagpussdreams explained it so clearly that if you can't see what she means, there is absolutely no point me adding anything.

Israeli Human Rights group
" It’s heartbreaking but it’s not surprising,” said Roy Yellin, director of public outreach with the Israeli human rights group B’Tselem. “We have documented over the years countless incidents of people who clearly surrendered and who were still shot.”
Critics Say Israel’s Killing of Hostages Reflects Broader Targeting of Civilians | Time

I mean some soldiers shared videos of themselves shooting at a wall.... so am I surprised? No.

These aren't military soldiers. They are idiots with weapons imo.

The report today was the 3rd story on what happened. It has shifted every day.

300,000 reservists. There is no seems about there being very very few professional soldiers.

“If this is not outright lying, then the target is Hamas, and the civilian (including the vulnerable) casualties are a really horrible, unfortunate and inevitable consequence of the air strike, but they are not the target.”

Doesn’t matter that there is no verified evidence of this, even if it were not lies, it is still a war crime to kill civilians when it is avoidable. You cannot target 🎯 any “enemy” with whatever weapons you want to when you can avoid killing civilians, especially the most vulnerable ones.

“The comparison is to deliberately target the most vulnerable, and perpetrate the most sadistic crimes against them in order to cause maximum terror and horror, on the one hand, or causing harm, including maiming and death, to the most vulnerable, even unnecessarily, or carelessly, but inadvertently, through targeting the enemy.”

The four premature babies that IDF refused to evacuate and simply left to die were a deliberate, purposeful and avoidable target. The journalist that uncovered their decomposing bodies by sneaking around IDF soldiers occupying the hospital has since been shot by an IDF sniper who targeted him.

The two women in the church and nunnery full of disabled was a deliberate targeting of the most vulnerable.

The women and babies in the hospital maternity ward that were blown to bits when a tank fired on a hospital, as well as the 12yr old girl in the paediatrics ward were also the most vulnerable.

There is a list of dozens of Oct 7ths that IDF have done to Gazans since Oct 7th.

You do know that Hamas official military target were IDF bases and border patrols? That over 1/3rd the deaths on October 7th were of IDF soldiers? That some of the “hostages” are actually IDF POWs? You are happy to condemn their war crimes against Israeli civilians, but are applying a completely different standard to IDF who also have the official military target of Hamas but also seem to be on a rampage of killing mostly civilians.

Abhorrent behaviour by Israel. Truly mind blowing.

the Israeli forces are claiming that Hamas are using babies incubators to hide weapons..............................

Seriously? Surely we've all seen the incubators in use in Gaza - pretty small [normal size] and with see-through sides for max observation [normal] and in constant use

So probably just about the most unlikely/worst place to be hiding anything at all

Could this be mindlessly repeated propaganda?

, Sickening that people find it funny that a young man who had done nothing wrong was killed because of how he looked. No other reason. I'm shocked at how racist people are.

Yesterday the Israeli spokesman was saying the Pope was wrong, the women killed at the church couldn't have been shot by IDF because that is against their rules of engagement.

Three Israelis shot by IDF which was against their rules of engagement.

Their rules of engagement don't seem like a cast iron defence.

I'm just trying to not think of the terror these 3 young men would have experienced.
Held hostage for 2 months, escaping or being released, doing everything possible to let the IDF know you re not Hamas, but then gunned down by your own people.

WTF is Israel playing at?

I’m surprised anyone still believes anything the Israeli government and IDF. Hamas are no better but the Israeli government are literally the only people in the world who thinks their policy isn’t kill anything that moves.

Even the US, who are probably their biggest ally are telling them to ‘be more surgical’.

You do know that Hamas official military target were IDF bases and border patrols? That over 1/3rd the deaths on October 7th were of IDF soldiers? That some of the “hostages” are actually IDF POWs? You are happy to condemn their war crimes against Israeli civilians, but are applying a completely different standard to IDF who also have the official military target of Hamas but also seem to be on a rampage of killing mostly civilians.

Hmm, you are sounding more and more as though you think of 7 October as a legitimate "resistance" exercise. I do wonder, though, if it got out of hand even from their twisted point of view. So many civilians swarmed over the border to join in the fun that it's hard to know if Hamas were solely responsible for all the violent rapes and horrific sexual mutilations documented e.g. here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_and_gender-based_violence_in_the_7_October_attack_on_Israel#Nova_Festival_rapes

Yes, about one-third were army, police and security staff. Many of the Nova festival security died trying to protect people. A pistol isn't much match against AK-47s and grenades.

Going back to the hostages shot by accident, apparently a soldier took fright and yelled out that they were terrorists. It's an area where they'd encountered many traps and suicide attacks. It must be maddening dealing with Hamas's level of malicious cunning, e.g. when they shot 33-year-old Adi Vital-Kaploun in front of her sons and then booby-trapped her body before shoving it under her older son's bed, so that it would explode if someone tried to recover her body.

There probably are incidents of deliberate cruelty in this messy and hateful war, and they will be held to account one day, but I don't think this is one of them.