Conflict Israel and other nearby countries

[EasterIssland]

Israel is at war with Gaza. However , this has dragged other countries in the area as well.
weve heard about the problems in West Bank (there is a thread) but also Lebanon where civilians have been killed and journalists have been targeted and killed

they’ve also attacked several airports in Siria.

ive read in the past there was a conflict as well with Yemen and read now this” Yemen's Houthis warn they will target all ships headed to Israel”

it doesn’t sound that post this war living in Israel is going to be safer than before

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/yemens-houthis-say-they-will-target-ships-red-sea-en-route-israel-2023-12-09/

I think that the Israeli government has made Israel much less safer than it was before and are to blame for the increased antisemitism around the world. I understand they aren't popular in Israel itself but many people are afraid to speak out, although some do. Netanyahu seems to be losing voters confidence by the hour.

It seems like a spectacular own goal to me.

If the threat from Yemen goes ahead and targets any ship going towards Israel will have to go around Africa … I’ve also read a comment that they could disembark everything in a third country and take it by land from there. Tho not sure whether any third countries will be willing to help taking into account Israel is not really loved at the moment by their neighbours

@EasterIssland Israel has a history with a few countries in that area.
Lebanon

www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/30-50-rockets-said-fired-at-israel-from-lebanon-in-largest-barrage-since-star-of-war/

Syria

www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-says-two-rockets-from-syria-triggered-sirens-in-golan-heights/

Youthi rebels

www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/14/yemens-houthis-say-they-fired-ballistic-missiles-towards-

I agree it's scary living in Israel at the moment and being on the receiving end of that. I will say though that some of that is not unique to 7/10 and happened before. I have family in one of the areas shown above and they sent me footage on incoming rockets Tuesday night.

Lebanon has been lurching rockets at Israel on and off for years. This isn't new. They just don't like them so have joined in.

Israel were attacked by the armies of the five surrounding countries in 1948 before they even had managed to form a proper army of their own. They had some weapons left over from the British withdrawal and it is normal for all men in the middle east to own a gun. Plus some of the refugees had been soilders. Some indigenous Jews had volunteered to help the British fight against the Nazis that the Palestinians were fighting alongside on the Mandate. So some men had a skill set that was useful in war. The Jews were not wiped out during 1948 despite best efforts of 5 countries that surrounded them. So now with a proper army and advanced weapons plus training I can not see Israel being any less safe than it has been all along when it comes to outside invasion or rocket fire.

Sorry should have added:

Israel is only really vulnerable to internal attacks. As we saw on the 7th October plus before then

Between 2016 and 2020, jihadis in Palestine firebombed 3,675 Israeli buses and cars; carried out more than 10,000 stonings and a total of 353 knife & gun attacks and car rammings. More than SEVEN attacks on Israel EVERY DAY.

Yes I know they’ve had conflict for a while , this has not happened only since 7-10.
it doesn’t look tho that it’ll get any better (and even less if they target civilians in other countries)
doubt hezbollah will stay “quiet” for long and not start their own attacks against Israel any time soon

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/12/07/israel-strikes-journalists-lebanon-apparently-deliberate

According to the states that attended the Arab conference a few weeks ago once the conflict is over and a short time has passed they plan to continue good relationships with Israel. It was only really Iran that tried to make things difficult in the near future.

Therefore I cannot see a great deal stopping cargo from being transported through some of these countries even whilst the conflict is on going. The other states really seem to only be making noises to keep some of there own citizens happy. I could be wrong but this is feeling I have got from them all the way through since they spoke hands with Israel a week after the pogrom. I was waiting to see if the Arab conference showed any sign they were going to hit out at Israel physically or never take up good relationships again. However it was all.very the opposite of that. They just condemned to many civilians deaths, really that was the worst they said. Everything else totally pissed off Iran and Hamas had a social media paddy too apparently but I have not seen that myself

I guess tho Hezbollah will continue attacking and seems like Yemen is not the country but Yemen's Houthi movement who will attack any cargo going to Israel

Yep

Also as Hezbollah, Houthi and Hamas are all considered to be under the payment of Iran non of this is surprising anyone. Hence why Israel and America both set up straight after the pogrom to deal with them if they started anything. Then more recently America and Britain have moved more forces into the area nearby.

So long as it is only these three groups that are attacking I think Europe won't get dragged into a full out war or anything. Israel will after a period be more peaceful and continue relationships as before with most states. The surrounding states wait all three of these trouble making Iran backed group gone anyway. So again the most that they will probably do about any deaths is a like noise.

I think most of the current leaders in the middle East will not want to see a escalation. However
I do think that the leaders of tomorrow, which will be the youth of today may not view Israel as favourably if the situation remains similar to now. Where most of the Palestinians still live under occupation.

However if a two state solution is achieved then there is more of a chance of some sort of peace

Just my opinion

The Houthis have seized a couple of "Israeli" (they may not sail under the flag of Israel but are ultimately owned by an Israeli) vessels over the last few weeks.

@EasterIssland you're correct if they block Israeli ships they'll have to sail around Africa. Israel's economy is heavily dependent on imports and exports. This will have a knock on effect on an economy that's already shrinking due to the conflict.

The Houthi actions have cost Israel millions already and Insurer's may refuse to insure any ships going forward.

No, the only people to blame for antisemitism are antisemites, as with any other sort of racism. To suggest the Israeli government is to blame is extraordinary.

@BelleHathor ah the Houthi's an iran backed proxy whose main slogan is
Ansar allah
Death to America
Death to Israel
A curse amongst the jews.
Victory to Islam.

They sound lovely chaps.

Saw yesterday that Algeria isn’t allowing USA airplanes(I think army ones) to go through their airspace

@sss your antisemitism seeps out of you in that description. Say that about any other country and blame the racism people suffer from and blame them for it. It won't sound so palatable.

'Many people' are not afraid to speak out. Lots of people do.

I have no opinion on what kind of chaps they are. I do wonder why certain actors keep thinking they can destabilise regions and that everything will be good. What happened in 2003 to radicalise that region?
"The American invasion of Iraq in 2003 deeply radicalized the Houthi movement, like it did many other Arabs. It was a pivotal moment. The Houthis adopted the slogan: “God is great, death to the U.S., death to Israel, curse the Jews, and victory for Islam,” in the wake of the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq. The group also officially called itself Ansar Allah, or supporters of God."
^www.brookings.edu/articles/who-are-the-houthis-and-why-are-we-at-war-with-them/^

Their actions with targeting ships, opens another front, which helps Gazan civilians right now.

Agree with much of this, apart from blaming the Israel for antisemitism. Racism is only ever the racists fault.

This all seems to be playing out exactly as Hamas would have planned.

Also, can we please not conflate Jewish people and Israel, they
are not one and the same. Most Jews I know have never even been to Israel let
alone being responsible for the actions of the Israeli government or IDF.
Netanyahu wasn't even popular with actual Israeli citizens living in Israel.

That’s true. However, I thought a lot less of the US when Trump was elected and a lot less of my own country when Johnson was elected, and a lot less safe generally in the world as a consequence of those elections. I think a lot less of Israel under Netenyahu - it is a democratic country, after all, so he was a choice of sorts. There have been no elections in Gaza for a very long time. This certainly has an effect on my opinion of Israel in general and on the plight of Palestinians in Gaza (as does the fact that such a high percentage of Gaza’s population is so incredibly young).

What Netenyahu ruling Israel does not have an effect on is my opinion of Jewish people around the world in general, who are just human beings like the rest of us, with differing thoughts, feelings and opinions of their own. However, knowing that Netenyahu actually won an election in Israel does help inform my interpretation of comments by representatives of Israel and the IDF, because he is their ultimate leader, which tars them with his attitudes and reputation. They are doing his bidding, and very willingly, too.

Basically, I distrust what Israel is saying an awful lot more than I would if its leader were less corrupt, less encouraging of illegal settlement and less generally awful.

And I distrust anyone who thinks the lack of elections in Gaza and the high young population is Israel's fault as it shows lack of basic research & knowledge. Hamas defeated Fatah in a battle in 2007 which followed Palestinian elections. Hamas has been in charge of Gaza ever since and so the lack of elections is entirely their responsibility. As is the belief in the primary role of women to stay & home & bear children. Along with other aspects of isis/taliban-like control of society.

Could I ask what you think Israel should have done following a long-planned attack which saw 1200 civilians tortured, raped, mutilated & murdered and more taken hostage? We know Hamas has the backing of Iran & Israel has constantly been attacked by Hezbollah also. Given how unsafe Israel is with so many of its neighbours wanting to destroy it how should it have responded to the Hamas attack?

Who say the lack of elections in Gaza is Israels’s fault? I certainly don’t. It is a fact, though, that the current population of Israel had a lot more agency over its leadership than the current population of Gaza. You can’t blame the majority of the population of Gaza for an election that took place before they were born or were old enough to vote.

What a ridiculous comment that the lack of elections is the fault of Palestinians.

*By that, I mean, the leadership of Israel is something Israelis have a choice over.

This sums up Israel’s problem. It had to react strongly, but with such corrupt leadership it’s hard to believe the scale of its reaction is legitimate. Even the US thinks it is excessive and indiscriminate. Add to this the fact nobody has the faintest idea what Israel is expecting it will really achieve from its current actions, other than mass slaughter. I just don’t see it successfully getting rid of Hamas and that resulting in peace and harmony. It is far more likely it will bolster and unite other terrorist organisations.

About 20,000 Israelis marched on Tel Aviv this July to protest the government’s planned changes to to judicial system. The opposition to the changes was quite a big international news story. Can you provide some backing for your statement that Israelis are afraid to speak out against their government?

You write that the Israeli government is to blame for increased antisemitism around the world. Did you mean to make such a breathtakingly antisemitic statement, or is it that you are a lot more ignorant about history, geography and politics than you pretend? Or perhaps both?